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Blackmagic Decklink Duo problems

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Hi all!

 

Fresh info from a new integration project we just did in a tv broadcaster.

 

Display cluster build according to the last specs, including W9100 display card, RAIDs, etc... Win 8.1 Pro x64... latest bios/ drivers/ etc... 24hour live test of the computer prior to the WO installation

 

We chose Blackmagic Decklink Duo (Dual SDI input) as a capture card since it dual input was the request and it was relatively best card comparing price/ quality.

 

Although it's written that Decklink Duo works even on a x4 slot in fact it doesn't perform good - there is a black flicker when live feed is provided to the screen (even when only one of the inputs is used). After moving to a faster slot problems are solved (for now and, hopefully, for ever)

 

 

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May I say that your experience is difficult to confirm as being universally applicable to all because different motherboards have varying specs for various slots depending on which slot is occupied. Some x4 slots drop to x2 or even x1 when another slot or even an M.2 slot is occupied. The main reason is because a Z87/Z97 chipset has only 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes available and a limited number of PCIe 2.0 lanes - all to be shared by various resources plus add-on cards like the Blackmagic. Likewise with a X79 or X99 chipset though these have more lanes for distribution.

 

The motherboard's manual will reveal its limitations/conditions for slot usage, if any.

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Maybe the problem was not caused by the x4 slot; you always have to check the sharing of the the lanes of the pci-e slots. So it could be that the x4 slot shares its lanes with another slot. Most times the manual or the website with the detailed informations about the mainboard shows how to use the slots without restrictions caused by sharing.

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On some motherboards, the x4 slots are configured by default to run @x1 speeds and need to be set to run @x4 speeds in the BIOS. Generally, you can just install these cards in the X16 slots and call it good.

 

Hope this helps.

 

My .02

Galen

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You are all correct. I didn't say it's an universal problem but there is a problem :)

Most probably it's caused because our supplier chose to put a C612 MB (Supermicro X10SRA +i7-5820K). Of course we read the motherboard manual prior to posting here, it says it can work in 16/16/NA/8 or 16/8/8/8.. and we checked for settings in the bios and even changed the slot (which resultet in better but still not satisfactory performance) ... but reading now the processor datasheet it seems it can work only with 28 lanes

 

We'll see...

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It is definitely not the processor (and btw the 28lane 5820 is also on the recommended specs)

We have installed a 40lane i7 (59xx) and the problem is still staying. I will shortly post a video

 

Any ideas? It is now urgent, they are having live shows every day

 

Could it be the Win8.1? I don't really want to do a downgrade if I'm not sure

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Having components on a recommended spec, does not free the user or his/her supplier from checking that the motherboard of choice, can accommodate the chosen setup and its components properly...

 

That said, this is what I've found on Supermicro's website:

 

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/xeon/c600/x10sra.cfm 

 

Expansion Slots line_yellow.gif

PCI-Express

  • 4x PCI-E 3.0 x16 slots (runs at 16/16/NA/8 or 16/8/8/8)
  • 2x PCI-E 2.0 x1 (in x4) slots

    PCI-E slot #1 supports (x4) and slot #4 (x16) is disabled when an Intel Core i7-5820K is installed

 

Which slot are you using?

 

/jonas

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Well, according to the motherboard manual it can accomodate 2 PCIx16x cards and according to the Blackmagic it can work in x8

 

When we were with the 5820 processor we've tried on Slot 1, Slot 2 and Slot 3 (all of the PCI-E3.0).

Now with the 5930 processor we tried on Slot 1, Slot 3 and Slot 4

 

All test are together with the engineer from the provider

 

This is the link with the problem

 

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Well, according to the motherboard manual it can accomodate 2 PCIx16x cards and according to the Blackmagic it can work in x8

 

When we were with the 5820 processor we've tried on Slot 1, Slot 2 and Slot 3 (all of the PCI-E3.0).

Now with the 5930 processor we tried on Slot 1, Slot 3 and Slot 4

 

All test are together with the engineer from the provider

 

This is the link with the problem

 

 

it looks like signal problem,

i suggest do the following test:

1.source check:

check your capture source direct to the monitor, check if it is source problem or capture card problem.

 

2.software check:

check the capture source from the blackmagic software, see if the capture source stable or not.

 

3. cable check:

-replace the SDI cable between capture card and source,

-replace the DVI? between Watchout PC and LED/TV.

 

I use BMD Decklink Duo with Asus Sabertooth z97 and no problem at all. very stable capture 2 source at same time.

 

M.

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Hi!

 

Source check - first thing we've checked. It seems OK, signal is coming from an SDI matrix controlled by a GrassValley tv mixer. Directly connected SDI monitor to the end of the cable - signal is OK

Cable checked - also did with the signal check. We changed the cable twice

It is definitely not the cable between the PC and the monitors - this problem on the video happens ONLY when there is lice SDI input and only during the init, after that it's stable

 

Although everything seems fine yesterday we were talking to connect direct SDI cameras... I don't know, just to double check

 

Software check -signal is dropping also on the direct Blackmagic preview

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We just used a Decklink Duo last night into Watchout 5: perfect signal - no imperfections, no latency with IMAG - lip-sync was perfect with the audio from the on-stage mics sent to the audio desk separately.

 

Details:

3 Sony cameras to a Datavideo mixer/switcher (therefore one source to the Decklink Duo)

100m SDI cable (I'm informed it was just a 75ohm video cable with a thick single core for SDI use); no boosting in between.

Watchout Production PC: Mac laptop with Windows 7 via Bootcamp.

Display PC: i7 4770 clocked to 4.2GHz, 1600MHz 16GB RAM; SSD for OS, SSD for Watchout; ASUS HD7970 with 4 Display ports-DVI each at 1920x1080 to LED Processor-Sender Card to 4 outputs to 60 LED panels providing 6480 x 756 pixels with each Sender Card handling 15 panels = 1620 pixels (1920 edge-to-edge did not work, truncating the media; but overlapping the 1920 outputs by 300pixels worked with edge-blend set to zero in Watchout); No external EDID Manager (we had Gefen DVI Detective N but they were not required).

 

As the Video source was 1080i50, deinterlace was used in Watchout: 'None' was not a good signal; 'Good Quality' was used. We than had a perfect signal.

 

Therefore, is your source interlaced? Did you try the deinterlace settings in Watchout?

 

Thomas Leong

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Thomas, i'm baffled about your message, stating lip-sync accurate signal with (de-)interlaced sdi through Watchout??? I'd say NO WAY. Did you measure the latency? Wasnt the audio delayed in the audiodesk?

To my best knowledge, you should at least experience 3 frames due to Watchout and an additional 2 due to deinterlacing?!?!?

 

Can anyone shed light on this phenomenal performance because if it can be pointed to a certain hardware configuration, I will have this build immediately. (Though with Datapath capture, as I still think that is the better option above BMD) ;-)

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... this problem on the video happens ONLY when there is lice SDI input and only during the init, after that it's stable ,...

 

Have you considered initializing the input signal at the start of your show and never closing it?

If you are not programming content for standby, a quick way to do that without changing any of your existing cues

is to add a standby layer on the main timeline and cue for the live input on the standby layer from time 0 for the full duration of the main timeline.

This has cured many similar issue to the one you describe.

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Off topic alert

 

Thomas, i'm baffled about your message, stating lip-sync accurate signal with (de-)interlaced sdi through Watchout??? I'd say NO WAY. Did you measure the latency? Wasnt the audio delayed in the audiodesk?
To my best knowledge, you should at least experience 3 frames due to Watchout and an additional 2 due to deinterlacing?!?!?

Can anyone shed light on this phenomenal performance because if it can be pointed to a certain hardware configuration, I will have this build immediately. (Though with Datapath capture, as I still think that is the better option above BMD) ;-)

 

While I agree with the point of your statement, might disagree on the specifics. More like 2 frames for capture and 1 frame for de-interlace.

But yes, some delay is inevitable. 

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Thomas, i'm baffled about your message, stating lip-sync accurate signal with (de-)interlaced sdi through Watchout??? I'd say NO WAY. Did you measure the latency? Wasnt the audio delayed in the audiodesk?

To my best knowledge, you should at least experience 3 frames due to Watchout and an additional 2 due to deinterlacing?!?!?

 

Can anyone shed light on this phenomenal performance because if it can be pointed to a certain hardware configuration, I will have this build immediately. (Though with Datapath capture, as I still think that is the better option above BMD) ;-)

 

Walter,

 

I did not check with the audio man as t whether he had initiated a delay in the audio. I'll ask the audio guy and revert later.

 

Thomas

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Have you considered initializing the input signal at the start of your show and never closing it?

If you are not programming content for standby, a quick way to do that without changing any of your existing cues

is to add a standby layer on the main timeline and cue for the live input on the standby layer from time 0 for the full duration of the main timeline.

This has cured many similar issue to the one you describe.

 

Yes, indeed. That is the way they are currently working - doing a init at the beginning - but I'll definitely continue to use every off air day to see what the problem could be from. Tnx for the idea of using a standby layer - it's defintiely a good one.

 

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I've spent so much time with Black Magic Capture Cards, trying to get them to work, downloading the latest drivers always seem problematic, because they update so often.

 

I know that the Datapath Capture Cards are twice the cost, but they just work. The Datapath cards to me are far superior to the Black Magic ones, and the man hours it takes to get the Black Magic cards to work well and consistently with Watchout really aren't worth the savings in cost.  

 

Fighting with the wrong gear is the worst thing, and it costs so much time and stress.  My advice is to just spend the extra, and get the right capture cards from Datapath.  You'll be so happy when it just works.

 

I've spent lots of time with Black Magic Products, and I like a lot of them.  I appreciated the advice I got to just buy the Datatpath, and I hope I can help someone else by passing that advice along.

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We have just never had an issue with the BlackMagic cards in my systems. Even the inexpensive Mini Recorders work without issue. One thing you need to do is open the BM Media Express software, then in the Preferences, set the Project Video Format to the format you will be feeding it, i.e; 720P @60 or 1080i @30, etc. You also need to make sure you have selected the right input that you will be using in the Windows Control Panel applet. They do not auto-detect the incoming signal. If you don't do this step, then it won't work in ANY program, let alone Watchout. They have never failed to work for me when set up correctly. I've even used them with Microsoft Expression Encoder for simple webcasting without any headache whatsoever.

 

I'm sure the DataPath products are great. So are the BM cards. They just require proper setup, as with any software or hardware.

 

My .02

Galen

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I'm using Blackmagic Decklinks (various models) from years with no issues.

Maybe the problem is Watchout documentation on Decklinks is a little bit outdated and inaccurate.

 

2 more cents added.

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First of all - one thing regarding the Datapath cards - they are definitely better, that's correct. But I am not sure that you can fit 2 Datapath capture cards (SDI2 and E2S for example) in the same machine - we couldnt fit E2S and RGBPRO since they are using the same driver and it's official info from Datapath.. haven't really tried with SDI & E2S... yet

 

 

An update - none of the above solved the problem

Processor with 40 lanes... direct SDI camera... sync into the Blackmagic...correct input settings... etc, etc.

 

But finally it will occur that Blackmagic does not work will all motherboards with same chipset from same manifacturer.

 

One more info we've received yesterday from their suppor regarding Ultrastudio 3.,0 Pro - the new USB 3.0 capture cards from the also do not work with many chipsets

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First of all - one thing regarding the Datapath cards - they are definitely better, that's correct. But I am not sure that you can fit 2 Datapath capture cards (SDI2 and E2S for example) in the same machine - we couldnt fit E2S and RGBPRO since they are using the same driver and it's official info from Datapath.. haven't really tried with SDI & E2S... yet.

...

 

Strange. I know we have run three DataPath VisionRGB e2s for a total of six simultaneous 1080p60 inputs.

Our standard motherboard would not handle that,

 but an alternate server motherboard did function correctly.

After we ran the test and confirmed three e2s function,

the customer ultimately cut it down to two e2s cards,

and those are operating as expected.

 

So I am confused that DataPath says you can not run two two-input cards.

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Never had issues either with multiple datapath cards. Wether it were two E2S's, E1S's or a E1/2S and a dual or single SDI card combined, the vision software just keeps counting the number of inputs (so input 1 and 2 are of the E2S and 3 and 4 are the dual SDI.

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First of all - one thing regarding the Datapath cards - they are definitely better, that's correct. But I am not sure that you can fit 2 Datapath capture cards (SDI2 and E2S for example) in the same machine - we couldnt fit E2S and RGBPRO since they are using the same driver and it's official info from Datapath.. haven't really tried with SDI & E2S...

 

The confusion stems from the fact that the newer series Vision E/AV and Vision RGBPRO does NOT share the same driver.

Vision RGBPRO is EOL:ed and an old analog only card.

To my knowledge, there's no issues fitting multiple cards (2+) in one PC, as long as the motherboard can handle it.

 

/jonas

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2 or 3 same type cards is OK

2 different types with same driver (E2S and RGBPRO) - unfortunately not

 

Anyway, Datapath are really great with great support.

I'm really confused with the Blackmagic... We've received the info for the unsupported motherboards or USB 3 chipset after we bought the cards

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