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WATCHOUT 6.2 - Available NOW!

Optimization Windows 10 Windows 7

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#1 DavidA

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 07:18 PM

Dear Dataton User community, 

 
we are very happy to announce that WATCHOUT 6.2 now is officially available for download from the web:
https://www.dataton.com/

News & Views / Blog
In addition, our blog - News & Views – has hit the streets! The first blog posts are available, with information about the technology used in the new features of WATCHOUT.
http://newsandviews.dataton.com/
 

Best regards, 
The Dataton team!


#2 digitaltulpe

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 11:19 PM

Hey,

 

is WIN10 OS now o.k.?

I don´t see any .... hint..or maybe i am ... blin...:)



#3 dnmeid

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 01:15 AM

Congratulations!
Is there an updated user manual too? The manual download still points to the 6.1 manual.

 

Dorian



#4 DavidA

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:49 AM

Hey,

 

is WIN10 OS now o.k.?

I don´t see any .... hint..or maybe i am ... blin... :)

Hi!

Windows 10 is fine! We have many users with Windows 10 on both production and display computer. But we do not have an official Windows 10 tweak list - yet. 

Best regards, 
David



#5 DavidA

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:49 AM

Congratulations!
Is there an updated user manual too? The manual download still points to the 6.1 manual.

 

Dorian

Hi Dorian!  

Not yet! This is work in progress!

Best regards, 
David



#6 soadyang

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 01:41 PM

Good morning, I did not find in the forum a list of windows optimization to leave the machine lighter to better flow the content, is there a list of this 2017 for windows 7 and 10?



#7 DavidA

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 02:18 PM

Good morning, I did not find in the forum a list of windows optimization to leave the machine lighter to better flow the content, is there a list of this 2017 for windows 7 and 10?

Hi!

No, we have not made a public tweak list for Windows 10. One for Windows 7 is still available on the forum, but has not been updated. We will release a Windows 10 tweak list later, but we have not set a due date. 

Best regards, 
David



#8 Ali Serdar Gulseren

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 02:14 PM

Hello to everyone,
 
When the video in the NDI source is stopped, the video on the NDI is not displayed on the timeline. The signal is signaled when the NDI source is activated.
 
I'm sorry for my bad english. :)


#9 scott britt

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 06:22 PM

So have been longtime WATCHOUT user...We have been using the ECHOFIRE firewire audio modules for input and output with version 5 for years...

 

Will this new version 6.2 work with them??  if not what hardware has been tested already??  I understand the ASIO standard, etc...

 

We also run with SMPTE timecode so need something that will still allow that SMPTE input and then 6 or so tracks of audio output...

 

Appreciate the info

Scott

 



#10 Miro

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:19 PM

Hey, I just tested the Echo Audio Fire 12. Works fine with the ASIO driver and all 12 outputs works as expected.

 

echo_audiofire12.png

 

WATCHOUT 6.2 doesn't have any support for time code input through ASIO yet but it will come in a minor update version soon (6.2.2). This is a bit limiting since ASIO takes exclusive control over the whole sound device, which makes it impossible to use the directsound input from the Echo simultaneously.

 

We also discovered a multi-channel WASAPI bug in WATCHOUT that is corrected in version 6.2.1 which makes it possible to use 8 outputs and TC input from the Echo Audio Fire 12. WATCHOUT 6.2.1 is finalized this week and released in the beginning of next year.

 

echo_audiofire12_wasapi.png

 

 

 



#11 MISTERK

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 10:20 AM

Hi all

 

welcome to the new version of watchout 6.2, and it's compatibility with win 10 ,

and happy birthday !

 

Will dataton release a tweaking list for win 10 x64 , pro or LTSB, as it was for win 7 ?

or a super geek user who knows the beast ?

 

Very important for users who build their own PC's,

to get max perfs out of watchout 6 !

 

Recently try a p4000 Nvidia and notice that there is two different working modes,

have to choose between GPU for Graphic Stuffs or GPU for Computation.

Anyone knows what is the difference ?

 

is it worth using MOSAIC settings in nvidia config panel for multiple outputs ?

or don't use it and work as usual, configuring each plugged output ?

 

Bye

 

 



#12 jochri

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:42 PM

Some updated informations on Win 10 versions and hardware specs:

 

I recently had the situation with our current machines and while building our new machines that the current Win 10 1709 does not deliver the performance I expected.

 

Here some links/articles:

- https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-fall-creators-update-fixes-the-directx-9-memory-allocation-bug

- https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/games_windows_10/windows-10-fall-creator-update-ver-1709-breaking/8d564435-4a8e-46c5-8622-db8caab72cb6

- https://medium.com/changewindows/i-dont-want-microsoft-to-release-1709-914728ba7782

 

No problems with our standard win 10 image so far. But with the Fall Creators update I run into lots of performance problems.

Especially playing ProRes files. HAP doesnt seem to be influenced by this.

Google: Direct x9 + Fall Creators Upgrade.... Lots of people running into problems...

Same hardware and with just the Creators Update: No Problems with watchout.

 

So I would say: stay away from the fall creators update when building a Win 10 image!

 

Means also: If you choose XEON CPUs, which I think is the best choice now building Watchout machines, Microsoft wants you to use Win 10 Pro for Workstations.

Which means: 1709 (Fall Creators Upgrade) as this is the rollout version of Win 10 Pro for workstations. The consequence I took from this experience leaded me to the decision to go for WIN 10 LTSB. The Licensing was easier than I expected and volume licences gives you an easy path for reimaging and upgrading the machines when neccessary. I would recommend to go to a shop who is specialised in Win 10 licensing. If you want recommendations you can contact me per PN. Its nearly 3 times more expensive then Win 10 pro though.

 

By the way: This document shows that with Win10 Pro For Workstations you gain the right to use the enterprise version: http://www.reckzigel.at/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Windows10ProforWorkstationsEdition.pdf

UPDATE: Just talked with the license dealer: You need a "qualifying" system to upgrade. So no free Win 10 LTSB with the Workstation Version. It will still cost you arround 300€ per LTSB License. Still compared to the troubles of activating lots of machines and building the Image I would say its worth the price...

 

Conclusion:

 

1709 Fall Creators Upgrade => Stay away from it!!!!  :angry:

1607/ 1703 =>Tested and save version. We did some big shows on it. :)

 

New machines with new Intel Xeon W:

Go for the Win 10 LTSB version with Volume Licensing through Win 10 Pro for Workstations license or directly from your dealer.

 

Not tried yet but a possible solution to the problem if someone wants to try: https://www.drivethelife.com/windows-10/fix-directx-errors-after-windows-10-update.html

 

PS Some more nerdy tech stuff:

While until now Intel Speed Step technology needs to be deactivated to prevent Watchout from running out of sync on the new Xeon-W CPUs this feature must be activated to allow the CPU to go into turbo mode and use all the speed possible. Not tested for sync yet but keep you updated. Check with your specific mainboard / CPU combination.

 

Why changing to speed step now?:

Intel implemented a technology called speed shift: "Specific jumps in frequency are reduced to around 1ms with Speed Shift's CPU control from 20-30 ms on OS control, and going from an efficient power state to maximum performance can be done in around 35 ms, compared to around 100 ms with the legacy implementation." This is very important when syncing different machines. If this is working as promised that also gives us a significant performance boost. Minimum CPU Speed should be set to 100% in Win so in theory efficient power states should not matter to the CPU and just the jump from arround 3,9 to 4,3 Ghz can be done now in 1 ms instead of 30ms.

 

XEON W-2145 is the next weapon of choice. Having an all core turbo of 4,3 Ghz (measured) and trying to get even more out of it....  B)  :D

Some might ask why not choosing the 10-Core Xeon W? It has a slower base speed which means also a slower all core turbo.

Didnt check it myself but as the iMac Pro is using variants of the Xeon 2145 and 2155

you can see in this benchmark that the 10 core is getting significantly slower in All Core Turbo performance compared to the 8 core on full load.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/12/27/first-look-benchmarks-put-apples-entry-level-4999-imac-pro-to-the-test

 

The only faster CPU configuration for a mediaserver would be the XEON Gold 6144 in a dual CPU configuration which would make up for the slightly lower clock speed.

However this would cost arround 7000 $ / 6000 € per dual cpu. This would be the choice if you would use the machine also for rendering applications...

 

And here some theory about what I wrote  ;)

https://colfaxresearch.com/xeon-2017/

 

Conclusion: Current fastest Watchout CPU Xeon E5 1650 v3 / v4 and for new builds Xeon-W 2145 or Xeon Gold 6144 in dual CPU mixed usage systems.

If you dont want to go the Xeon way i think the i9 7900x with 10 cores and an all core turbo of arround 4 Ghz is the way to go. ( I would always choose the Xeons)



#13 Miro

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 11:21 PM

Nice and very well written post Jochri! =)

 

When putting together system critical hardware it doesn't make any sense to use the current branch (CB) or current branch for business (CBB) of Windows. Long term servicing branch (LTSB) is the way to go.

 

If you want to take it to the next level and maximize robustness then make the OS partition constant (read-only) using the unified write filter that is provided by the enterprise versions. Never start windows explorer/desktop because it spawns tons of unnecessary disturbing processes (that can cause frame drops) and use the shell launcher to boot directly into WATCHOUT.

 

Sure professional processors will provide you with ECC memory (increasing stability) and more cache memory making video decoding more efficient but Xeon W, Xeon Scalable or AMD Epyc might be overkill and too expensive for some setups. But if you want to go hi-end then these are the best options designed for heavy 24-7 usage.

 

Dual CPUs might make things worse due to a lot of added overhead in memory sharing between the CPUs. You won't get 2x gain with dual processors and in some cases this might be counterproductive (like intense HAP playback). This is the reason behind Xeon Scalable and AMD Epyc which are basically multiple processors packaged as one sharing the same silicon in order to minimize overhead.

 

//Miro



#14 dnmeid

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:04 PM

This is getting slightly off topic, but I have to tell you, that I simply love the write filter. I built a bunch of machines for an installation five years ago and used Win 7 embedded with EWF enabled. The system reboots every night, which takes about 20 seconds. The systems are operating 24/7 for five years without any problem and are as fast as at the first day.

 

Back on topic.

Since the User manual isn't online yet and I can't check myself at the moment: is the NDI input capable of NDI v3? Especially does multicast work? I'm planning to use NDI for the first time next week with 7 display computers and four NDI streams. Without multicast this would result in 28 streams and that could be too many even for my 10GB network.

 

Dorian



#15 Miro

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:52 PM

Hi Dorian,

 

Constant systems either using file based write filter (FBWF, windows 7 embedded), enhanced write filter (EWF, windows 8.1 embedded) or unified write filter (UWF, windows 10 "embedded" aka Enterprise LTSB) is great for long term stability. Our WATCHPAX hardware is using FBWF by the way just for this purpose.

 

For your off topic question. WATCHOUT 6.2 is using NDI v3. Multicasting is taking place in the NDI transmitter and for the receiver it make no difference if multicasted or not. The dynamic image server software can be configured to use multicasting though WATCHOUT. Previous versions used RTSP and since 6.2 the image server is using NDI with alpha channel. 



#16 Erik Rönnqvist

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:15 PM

As long as the network is properly configured and the switches are of good quality, multicast should work just fine. A few things to keep in mind:

Run the cluster on an isolated network, which as few things as possible connected

Use high quality smart switches

Make sure IGMP snooping is turned on in the switches (which it probably is by default)

Prefer to use one switch with many ports, instead of several switches with fewer ports in cast you want to connect many machines.

 

That said, during testing we did run 64 streams without multicast on a local network consisting of 64 computers connected by 3 pcs 10 Gbit switches with 24 ports each. Each stream was filmed content 1920x1080 at 30 fps. Network load was around 80% and it was running for days without issues. 

 

/Erik



#17 Miguel Bosch

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:22 PM

Hi:

 

What`s the best w10 version for WO 6.2?

 

Thanks!







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