Walter Soyka

Well, now that I know about it, I'll use this all the time! It would be really excellent if this were supported as an official feature. I'd hate to build a show that relied on it, only to have the behavior "fixed" in a future version. Thanks, w.

Our thread-starting setup defined displays by direct IP address. I'll use computer names on the next one and see if it makes a difference. Thanks so much, JJ! w.

Nice, JJ! We were also syncing via S400 without genlock in the original post, and we were running WATCHOUT 6.1.6. w.

Thanks, WatchDog. I have a revised version for V6 which also adds - and = for zoom, and PgDn/PgUp for timeline navigation, just like Ae. I'll post it here next week! w.

Thanks for the sample! Now I get what you were describing -- using the Z position to enforce a compositing order. I really liked being able to see under the screen masking with my compositing VD setup, but this is a good workflow for a lot of other shows! And my apologies for going OT. I think that virtual displays are a flexible, important tool, but if my use of them contributed in any way to the cueing latency bug, I thought it might be good information for JJ and the developers to know. w.

Yes, but then I couldn't run any cue at any time, because a lower cue couldn't overtake a higher cue. I needed to combine features of "Always on top" and "Task list order," so I used VDs to enforce the compositing order my show required. w.

In case the use of virtual displays impacts the issue we're chasing, I'll describe our setup on the show that started this topic. We used three virtual displays to enforce a compositing order with three different kinds of "Always on top" auxiliary timelines: Content Logos Masking for moving screens Each kind played in their own dedicated space on stage. The media cues for the VDs were on the main timeline and output to projectors: two straight-up, two rotated with geometry correction and pixel density adjustment. The stacking order of the VD media cues composited content on the bottom, logos in the middle, and screen masking on top. We had a fourth virtual display on that project, too. We had a performance group that projected the distortion-corrected output from an overhead projector seen through a live input fisheye camera onto the main screen. Because WO does not offer geometry correction on virtual displays, we used that virtual display on a 3D object — a simple subdivided plane with UVs tweaked to grid as seen through the fisheye — to rectify the distortion. As a programmer, I knew I was not using virtual displays as designed, but I loved the elegance and flexibility of this setup. The compositing VDs game me the flexibility to run any cue at any time without having to track or manage state, and the 3D object VD allowed me to keep WATCHOUT on the show instead of switching to a more complex server product that would allow geometry correction on input, not output. w.

@JJ Myers If there's anything that we can do to help, let me know. I'd love to see this repro'd and resolved, so we can use WATCHOUT with confidence. w.

Yes, I had this issue on a show last year. Here's a thread about it: http://forum.dataton.com/topic/2558-latency-on-running-cues/ The displays did have multiple NICs, and I did use virtual displays extensively. w.

Technically it was Apple that dropped QuickTime support. For now, the best alternative to render directly to Hap from After Effects is probably AfterCodecs: https://aescripts.com/aftercodecs/ Personally, I generally render to an intermediate and then encode to Hap separately. You can keep an older version of Adobe Media Encoder for this. w.

You could set up your loop with control cues: one that marks the beginning of the loop, and one at the end that jumps playback back to the beginning of the loop. Place the "Loop Back" control cue on a conditional layer, and clear the "Loop Back" condition via an auxiliary timeline. To set conditions via aux timelines, you'll have to add a String Output to control WATCHOUT via TCP/IP or UDP (and enable control of the production PC software if that's how you'll be running it). You can use the "enableLayerCond 1$0D" command to set Condition 1 and "enableLayerCond 0$0D" to clear all conditions. w.

Perhaps your project would be a good candidate for a projection-mapping workflow: https://www.dataton.com/3d-projection-mapping-basics w.

You must first install the HAP QuickTime component, available here: https://github.com/Vidvox/hap-qt-codec You will need to restart Adobe Media Encoder (and any other QuickTime-dependent applications) before Hap is available. w.

Thanks, Mike. We were already using TCP control of the production PC from Widget Designer. The production PC was responding immediately to Widget control; the displays were responding to control from the production PC on a delay. Once the issue occurs, the delay is consistent until WP.exe is restarted, and occurs whether the cue was fired indirectly from WD or directly from the production PC. With respect to Klangreich's post from yesterday: he has a a completely new show exhibiting the same issue, without WD in the mix yet. After an hour or two of programming and frequent updates, the latency issue pops up and the display PCs follow the production PC's cues on a delay. w.

I can provide some additional context on this show. WiFi is off; firewalls are off. We are controlling the production PC with Christie Widget Designer via TCP/IP on the same . The content in each timeline starts 0.1 seconds in, and we are manually loading (with "halt") each aux timeline several seconds (usually 10 or more) before playing them (with "run"). We haven't narrowed down the exact cause, but something is happening that makes the displays suddenly respond after approximately 2 seconds' delay. All displays respond immediately to the TCP-based control (like scrubbing the timeline or jumping around cues), but on a 2-second delay to all UDP-based control (hitting the play button!). Closing WATCHPOINT on the displays and relaunching it gets us back to real-time performance. The delay seems to happen most often after a crash of the production PC, which has happened several times after a lot of editing. But again, I've been unable to narrow down a specific cause, and whether the production PC crash is the cause or another symptom. I can provide support with dump files from the production PCs. There doesn't seem to be anything interesting in the logs. I've never seen anything like this before, but if anyone has any insight as to what the cause may be or what other steps we should take to troubleshoot the cause, I'd be most appreciative. We are doing another show with WATCHOUT next week, and it would be very helpful to be able to explain to production management what's really going on, and how we can avoid it on future productions. Thanks! w.

Use a virtual display for the texture instead of applying the texture directly to the 3D object. Then you can tween the layers on the virtual display.

You can do this really easily with the text tool, too. I create 2min, 1min, 30s, 15s, and individual 10s down to 0s title cards, animate them just off-stage, and copy and paste them over each video. This also gives you an easy way to jump 30s out for rehearsal. w.

I've used a different GPU-texture-on-disk playback system (technically similar to HAP) elsewhere with outstanding results. You need fast storage, but relieving the CPU of the burden of decoding video really helps push performance and layering, especially at high resolution. I think this would be a very promising area for Dataton to invest some effort. w.

I've updated my AutoHotkey script for WATCHOUT, adding a couple more useful custom key bindings. Borrowing from After Effects, this update adds - and = for timeline zoom, plus PgUp/PgDn for timeline navigation. PgUp/PgDn moves the playhead 0.1 seconds; Shift+PgUp/PgDn moves the playhead 1 second, and Ctrl+Shift+PgUp/PgDn moves the playhead 10 seconds. Personally, I find these time controls invaluable when programming a show. I'd love to see them eventually integrated into the application! The keybindings from the previous version for the Windows Calculator, Add media file, Insert layer, New folder, Add new text, Add new composition, Add new video proxy, Duplicate selected composition (naive), and Y-rotation tween are all still there, too. Enjoy, w. http://www.keenlive.com/renderbreak/2014/06/custom-watchout-hotkeys-v2/

Great. Thanks again, Mike.

Fantastic, thanks very much, Mike! Second question: how do I prepare a pre-split proxy for scaled displays? Here's what I assume I should do -- could you check my thinking, please? I assume that each of the "Display x.ext" movies should be prepared at the native resolution of the corresponding display, and should have pre-rendered accommodation for the differences in pixel density -- in other words, that I should expect the display computers to simply play their pre-split without additional processing or display scaling. I also assume that the dimensions for the video proxy only affect its stage sizing and not its processing, so I should size the proxy item for appropriate placement on stage rather than according to the actual pixel dimensions of the pre-split movies. Have I gotten that right? Thanks again, w.

If I am using display scaling with WATCHOUT, does it concatenate transforms? In other words, if I scale an image on the stage up, then scale it back down to its original resolution via display scaling, will it actually perform the upscale then downscale, or will it simply keep the original resolution? Thanks, w.

Over my last couple shows, I've been working on an AutoHotkey script which adds some useful keyboard shortcuts to the WATCHOUT production software: Add media file, New folder, Add new text, Add new composition, Add new video proxy, Y rotation tween, and a cheat to sort of duplicate the selected composition. I've shared the script if anyone is interested: http://www.keenlive.com/renderbreak/2013/09/custom-watchout-keyboard-shortcuts/ I hope this is helpful to others, and I'm always open to feedback and suggestions. w.