watchout stability Thoughts? Is Version 7 ready for show environments?

[Steve Farris]

I've been testing version 7 for a bit, and it seems to be stable.  Still figuring out the workflow.  I feel I'm ready to make the leap to using it on a show (gotta start sometime, right?)

So I'm wondering about people's experience in the real world.  Do you feel it's stable and ready for action?  If you have started using it for shows, I would love to hear your thoughts.  What is good?  What gives you pause?  What has failed and crashed the show and sent you out the back door of the hotel?

If you aren't ready to use it for real, why not?

I'm looking forward to using it, I'm already happier with how it works and when I went back to v6, I struggled to connect a display that just worked with v7.

Steve

[Luca Santambrogio]

Still loosing frames with datapath and magewell input cards.

Blackmagic cards still not supported.

need more ways to tween colours.

 

I have not tested 3d mapping, masking and geometry and soft edges yet

[Walter]

Hi @Steve Farris, I've done quite a few shows now using 7. If it has the features you require, just go for it, it's solid and has a much better workflow imho. I personally wouldn't want to run 6 anymore on a show.... 

[Jacky]

The biggest issue i am facing right now is workflow as well. the WO6 workflow for content management on multiple clients is much more straight forward then the asset manager imo. I have even asked our region support rep, on what they think is the SOP for workflows for multiple installs. since right now you have to either bring the asset manager with you on all projects to update the show on site (IE have it on your laptop) or update the show onsite using the onsite asset manager. 

but we do shows all around the world we can be onsite all the time so with WO6 we just update the show inhouse then package the show and Load it remotely. I can't seem to get that workflow in WO7, since if i need to have the asset manager onsite then i need to update the show remote without doing it inhouse then push. some places we do have poor network connections so having to remote work is a pain. vs i can have all show component ready and just "load" with WO6. 

[Steve Farris]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.  So far in programming it seems quite stable and I'm enjoying the new interface.  My biggest gotcha is as Jacky mentioned, trying to move the show to another machine without having network access to the machine I programmed on.  It seems this part of the process has not been fully vetted.

[keitht]

Let's discuss this more please.  There are quite a few things I would like to see to start using v7 in live environment.  But first and foremost I cannot seem to have a viable primary/backup scenario.  I spent last week testing and trying to get a viable solution.

We need to have 2 producer computers (acting as director and asset manager).  Each of those would connect via 2 separate networks (separate Primary and backup network switches are a must) to the appropriate display (runner) machines (which are named identically).  If I connect the 2 producers to each other via a second NIC and transfer the .WATCH file AND the entire Asset Manager folder, I can load and use on the backup.  BUT...

A.  They constantly get confused on who is director and who is asset manager
B.  I have to keep that secondary NIC disconnected and only connect when transferring.  Otherwise they continually fight over who is director and asset mgr.  This is not idea, this NIC would also supply internet and new files, so I don't want to have to disconnect.

If I am misunderstanding and there is a better/different way to have primary/backups please advise.  Until then, unfortunately I am back to v6.

[mindopera]

I am running into the same issue.  I thought that if you had the 2 producer and 2 runner computers connected to a switch than all you had to do is tell on producer to direct one runner and the other to direct the 2nd runner.  When I do this the two producer computers fight with each other and throw a barrage of messages about which machine is directing.

[artboy]

I often use the force function for 2D calibration. 

That part hasn't been implemented in WATCHOU7. It's not easy to make delicate calibration. 

No need for online or features like asset manager definitely help, but there's too little material to learn new features (manuals, video tutorials, etc.)

Since it's a new process, when setting up and using certain features, I need official opinions, not personal speculation. I look up the manual and there's no details. 

I don't have any data on which of the many features are implemented now and which are not. I think it would be very helpful if there was an organization.

[Steve Farris]

Thank you everyone for your input, it has been helpful and the learning continues!  Here is my takeaway.

First, yes Version 7 is ready for live shows, with some issues.

1) Running a backup machine is a kludge and difficult to achieve.  This HAS to be addressed.  The scenario KeithT describes needs to be functional.  I was able to make two systems work by creating an air gap.  I used an intermediary computer with two NICs to transfer files between Primary and Backup producers.  I used a file sync program to keep the .wo directory in sync between the two machines.  Even still, my show seemed to reach a point where it couldn't sync anymore content and the backup would have missing media error.  I was near the end of my show and simply re-programmed the changed content on the backup.  I shouldn't have to go through these hoops.

2) Version management is a great feature and doesn't seem to be reliable.  Even though I have update media checked (a very difficult checkbox to find), media only refreshes sometimes.  I could not figure out when it would refresh and when it wouldn't.  In the end, I always renamed my files (v1, v2, v3, etc) and imported them from scratch.  That is the only way I could track if files were updated.  My machine would also lose track of modified files and tell me there was missing media.

Some quirks in the interface, possibly bugs or maybe features that aren't fully functional?

- The play head on the main timeline doesn't always cause the window to scroll.  I could find no rhyme or reason to why this happens.  I this is a feature, I want to be able to turn it off.  When the timeline is playing, I want to see where the playback head is so I can see upcoming cues.

- I had occasions when selecting cues put them in some sort of internal edit mode where I could not "grab" the end of a cue to change its duration.  It seemed like it was in a mode to edit effects, but I couldn't exit this mode.  I could eventually get out of this mode, but never figured out how I did it.

Those were th big issues while programming.  I'm sure I will come across more, but as I say the big issue is running a backup system.

[Daniel B Chapman]

I'm having a similar issue here. I work at a smaller scale where the live backup isn't a requirement, but I basically don't have access to a set of core projection mapping effects. (I'm a theater designer, my work is 95% composites/layers on site)

Things that are stopping me from using it

• Corners Effect is Missing for last minute content mapping. I can't stress how much this messes up my non-3D mapped shows. Sometimes you need to fake it on site and you don't have time to manually keystone it. (Banners, Posters, anything rectalinear)
• We need more color control (as posted above) Tint and Black and White especially. This can be kludged, but it isn't effective for my time
• We don't have a gain/offset (but we do have per-color offsets... I feel like this is an easy one to put them all together
• In a perfect world I'd like to see an exposure effect (QLab) or levels effect, not just a gain/offset as I'm often just adjusting levels to make content work against stage lighting. Honestly I'd be thrilled to see a real levels shader with high/low/mid adjustable in a media server. That would make most of my complaints about exposure go away.

Things that make me wish I could use it

• NDI support is amazing for previsualization, I'm bitter when I spool up a display server and capture software to create streams
• Workflow is more stable/faster
• Changing display types and the virtual displays are much easier to understand and use
• I like the new variable controls and the fact I can run a display out of my producer computer in a pinch. Sometimes cables/electricians fail during rehearsals and having the ability to just drop in an NDI Source or another output is something I value.
• I can probably run it on AMD GPUs without weird display issues.
• OSC might actually be first class soon for show control instead of MIDI (We still need go to cue)

Honestly, if I had the corners effect I'd probably have moved my shows to 7 at this point.