limeworks
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Posts posted by limeworks
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Rob, that sounds like an interesting (and somewhat similar) project we just installed in our new wing. we have a Christie Microtile wall with a Vista Spyder (x20) upstream doing the image management. i'm running at DCI 4k (4096x2160 -- though the wall is physically 4096x2127, other magic involved) from a single computer. doing dual output 2048x2160 into the spyder which stitches back together to form the single 4k image. btw, the content is a single 4k video playing in watchout. works perfectly -- or has for months, now.
as for my original problem for this posting...i'm realizing that AVC is a consumer codec mostly related to Handbrake conversions and intended for AppleTV and other iOS use. it does work on some systems but just not my display computer. i guess my description of my problem wasn't clear enough as some of the responses are suggesting things i thought i described doing.
basically, to test the AVC MP4 file on the display computer i tried several things.
1) i ran Watchout Production on the display computer and loaded and played the file in the timeline. so, hardware is NOT the problem in this comparison. only how Watchout Production differs from Watchout Display and the scale of the video on the screen (which, of course, could be hardware related, etc.). in Production, it worked fine, meaning the video was smooth and not skipping/jerky.
2) i ran Watchout Display on the same display computer and loaded the show. the video skips and jerks. to be fair, it's in full-screen mode while running Display.
ultimately, we converted the file to ProRes Proxy, as that is one of the few conversion codecs that our video guys can find (other than AVC using Handbrake) that will allow unusual video sizes (1080x3840, in this case).
i'd rather not do multiple videos as it tends to 'rip' the videos apart unless i have very fast hardware driving it, and i don't in this case.
i think i have to delve more in to some hardware upgrades but minor ones for this particular problem (better graphics card, etc.)
btw, just a question to Dataton folks...from Jonas' cross-reference, you say Watchout does not use hardware acceleration. also it does not use Quicktime to play back MP4 nor WMP to playback WMV files. what does it do instead? and why would video cards help if it doesn't use hardware acceleration?
i assumed since i had to install Quicktime with the Watchout installation that it was using QT for playback and such...obviously, i have not searched the forums for an answer to this. i'm more curious than needing a solution so any other cross-references are welcome.
thanks,
matt
It sounds like an interesting project
I wouldn't anticipate any display issues driving just two outputs like that.
We have run 6 x full HD (1920x1080) videos for a final resolution of 11520x1080 without any issue at all, from just one machine.
Our limits have been the max read speed of the SSD - we're about to experiment with RAID to see if that pushes possibilities even further (driving 4 x 4K displays or more for instance).
Though odd-shaped files vs formats that support them can require a balancing act.
Personally i've had better success sticking to standard sizes then cropping the unused portion (or just letting it hang off the edge of the display if that was possible).
I have never had good success with odd codecs when using Watchout, so tend to stick to Quicktime/H.264 and make it work with some sort of other trickery if required.
The only time we don't use this is if we require videos with transparency.
Rob
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I suppose it depends if this is a temporary installation / show, or the display computer will be running this project for some time.
Either way though, i'd be tempted to use a known-reliable optical output (either from a good motherboard or interface), and use an Optical to AES converter (which are relatively cheap and easy to find). I suppose it depends on WHY you need AES audio. From a Watchout compatibility standpoint however, this is probably the most reliable route in my opinion.
Rob
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I recently ran a 4700 wide MPEG-2 in WATCHOUT. The maximum size here may be graphics card dependent. And of course overall performance is computer dependent. Running such a large video as a single file requires a sufficiently fast computer. I would think the same applies to H.264, although playback here is quite a bit more demanding, so it tops out sooner than MPEG-2 in terms of maximum resolution your computer can handle.
Mike
Sometimes it's codec dependent. H.264 codec taps out at 4k resolution i believe. H.265 is intended to handle larger frame sizes.
We recently developed a show for the IAC Video Wall in NYC (native resolution of 22720 x 1920 or thereabouts) running 10 x display machines (though output from watchout is upscaled through Vista Spiders). Ran into all sorts of problems with video sizes for previewing and had to max size at ~4k. Of course once it was split for all machines it was no issue since each machine displays at less than 4k resolution.
It did give us a chance to push our display machines though - we ran HD video across 6 displays at 14200 x 1200 resolution (downsampled on stage a little to fit on 6 x HD displays). Was great to see our machines push that hard. Our limitation then became SSD READ speed - everything else still had more room to go.
Rob
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I'm working on a show where when I press the space bar to roll a video cue it just doesn't play. Sometimes it takes multiple times pressing the space bar to play. I just bought another wired keyboard to eliminate that being a possibility. It will do this randomly in shows where nothing has changed. Sometimes everything works fine, sometimes it doesn't. I optimized the system per the tweak list. I'm playing HD files and the system drive and watchout media files are on seperate partitions but on the same drive. I'm cat5 directly to master cpu to the display cpu. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
If you press the space bar to advance on the production machine, does the time progress ? Or does the production machine not respond?
If the time progresses but your display machine does not, i would ensure your video is encoded correctly, replace ethernet cables, etc.
If the time doesn't progress, the issue is with your control machine. Turn off video preview if you haven't already.
Without knowing which machine is causing the delay, it will be hard to debug.
Rob
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Rob,
You need to download the Show to be used from Production first, ie 2 keys needed.
This is when a Shows folder is created on the Display computer/software.
THEN, invoke/use file based control.
/jonas
Hi Jonas,
OK no worries, thanks.
That's where i was going wrong.
I don't have a second machine with me - will just use production software for now.
Will be able to connect to the venue's display machines tomorrow anyway.
Thanks,
Rob
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Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply.
I'm trying to get a file that i have created using the production software to run on the same PC as my show has been created.
I don't need the production software running at all as it's MIDI controlled.
Is that where i'm going wrong?
How do i make Watchpoint load a show without pushing it from the production software? Or is that not possible?
We have several licenses, but for this show only brought one machine / key.
Our machine is not being used in the show as the venue runs watchout for their display system already, but i would like to preview it.
Thanks,
Rob
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You can do it with MIDI inputs. Use the basic concepts in this method:
http://forum.dataton.com/topic/1318-set-input-value-via-timeline/?p=5235
I have MIDI working great - i am looking to meet both conditions (MIDI plus another) for timed loop exit as you assisted with in a previous post.
Rob
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Hi everyone,
I can't seem to get file based control to load a show in cluster mode.
I am using the example script from the manual, since i just need it to load the show then i can start my controllers.
My commands file loads, so i know i have that correct, but it throws an error:
"Show doesn't exist: SHOW_NAME"
I have tried specifying path like you do for production mode, even though the manual says you can't.
The manual says put the show file in the "shows" folder in the Watchout installation, but i can't see a shows folder.
I also tried creating one and putting it in there.
I'm sure it's something very simple, but any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Rob
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You don't have to map anything - just setup the inputs to respond.
This has to be done one by one for each key/pad/control on the surface.
There is no way to natively map it like you do a DAW / Sequencer to control play / pause etc.
Personally i have started using QLab as a Watchout controller, simply for its comprehensive control ability.
Watchout is still champion for actual output however IMO - and QLab can't compete with this.
Rob
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Correct
Thanks JFK. I was looking for a way to do it from production computer based on MIDI inputs or something.
But i can work with TCP : D
Thanks,
Rob
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Sorry for the vague question JFK - i guess i simply don't understand how to use layerconditions.
What i take from your response is that they will respond to TCP commands - is that correct?
Else - how can i modify their state?
I understand how to set a layer etc.
Thanks for your clarification regarding Preferences - that does make alot of sense now!
I just don't understand how i control their state in a dynamic way.
Thanks,
Rob
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There is no built in way for a cue on a timeline to do this,
but it can be done. Basically you have WATCHOUT send IP commands to itself.
Setup an output device whose TCP/IP IP address is 'localhost',
i.e. 127.0.0.1
Set the port at 3039 for cluster use, or 3040 for production computer use.
Then use the standard command set as appropriate
(Appendix D for production, Appendix E for cluster mode).
Don't forget to put a carriage return ($0D) at the end of each command's string.
You need to send the authenticate 1 and then the appropriate setInput command.
I break the authenticate and the command into separate cues so I can control their timing.
Thanks JFK - that makes sense - i'll try that.
I'm trying to implement the solution for seamless exit of a loop that you provided a response to previously - and got stuck at this point.
Thanks,
Rob
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Hi Everyone,
I have read the watchout manual on the topic, but i still cannot seem to understand how to get conditional layers to work.
I am assuming these aren't exclusively for use with pickups etc, and can be used with control inputs etc?
Any further advice or guidance regarding setup / usage would be brilliant.
Thanks,
Rob
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Hi Everyone,
I'm wondering if anyone can help - i'm not sure if Watchout can do this.
Is there a way to set an input value on a timeline?
For example, if i have a MIDI Control input, can i set this value from the timeline somehow?
I could not find any way to do this.
Thanks,
Rob
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Watchout supports dual-GPU ?
Probably worth noting that 7990 is dual-GPU on the one card - which IS fully supported.
But unfortunately dual cards not supported
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Thanks Jonas.
Not a big deal. I just thought i might be able to use the second graphics card since Watchout didn't.
thanks,
rob
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Or SSD:s, as highly recommended in all our setup guidelines for multioutput DisplayPC:s.
We are not talking genlock here, but graphics card frame-lock.
Sorry i should clarify, we are using SSD - even SATAIII - we would get jumping on 6 x HD outputs and traced it back to read of the SSD apparently maxing out. We're yet to test with RAID0 but have plans to try 2 x 128GB SSD in place of the 256GB SSD currently in the display machine we're referencing.
We are probably pushing limits of throughput so we might find it's some other slow-point (but running performance statistics points to this). We're not near the theoretical limits, so who knows until we test it.
And yes - my error regarding Frame-Lock, sorry for the mistake.
Thanks,
Rob
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I also have two HD 7990s and they work exceptionally well - and have run 6 full HD streams from them without issue (sometimes some read delay from the HDD - easily fixed with RAID)..
Firepro would be better if you need Genlock capability though.
I do notice some free-running videos get out of sync with each other when running for extended periods of time.
I think Genlock will fix that since the display card listens to a master clock.
Rob
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How about putting your unwanted displays to a different Tier, and applying layer conditions to those content not meant for the big screen?
Ken
That's an idea - thanks Ken. Though i believe it will still try and take over with a blank screen.
Thanks,
Rob
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Thanks for the support guys!
I have MSC connected through a local Midi device and working from qlab.
I'm then trying to send notes from the same qlab machine to the same midi device (connected locally to the WO manager).
If you connect it directly to the Watchout machine, then you need to set each note up as an input on Watchout.
This is the same for control inputs. Once that's done, trigger it from Qlab and you should see it display in the INPUT window as on (though this is easier with a keyboard where you can press the key for an extended amount of time).
Also make sure you only have one Midi device on the Watchout machine - i spent hours trying to debug a short time ago before i realised Watchout was responding to one of the other MIDI inputs.
I've been playing quite alot with MIDI / Qlab and control surfaces - i'm going to post about my experience shortly.
Rob
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You can easily work around this using QLab.
Just assign cues to listen on the Midi notes - and tell QLab to send MSC messages linked to the notes.
You can assign as many cues as you want to the same midi note, so there's really no limit to the amount of messages you can trigger from that note.
I have even setup QLab to "unlatch" latching buttons from a console after firing all cues. It's very flexible.
Rob
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Hi Everyone,
Is there a way to stop Watchout from using ALL screens on the display computer?
Even with the use of a second graphics card (which we know Watchout won't display through), Watchout still takes over the screens attached to the second graphics card.
I would like to display some system statistics etc even only for testing purposes, but can't find a way to prevent watchout from displaying a black screen on them.
Thanks,.
Rob
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Also ensure that you set Watchout to map cues to Main or AUX timelines.
I can't seem to make anything happen unless i do that.
Once setup, it seems to work extremely well.
Rob
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I received this message recently (5.5.1). But it was because i was switching between different MIDI monitoring tools / USB midi vs standard MIDI etc, when using a combination of controllers together.
I haven't had the same problem using standard MIDI devices via a PCI-E Midi port. It seems to be much more stable than connecting via USB (it also means watchout can see more than one controller).
Rob
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Intermitent Triggering of Timelines
in WATCHOUT FORUM
Posted
This is expected behaviour as far as i understand.
I tried for a while to control main timeline as well as aux timelines, but never managed to make it work.
We simply put everything on AUX timelines.
The only thing i use the Main Timeline for if i'm controlling with MSC is for content i want on Standby.
Outside of that i don't use the Main Timeline for this very reason.
But the way we create shows now is designed to run from MSC - with no need for a production/control machine for the show.
Especially using compositions (which are again like a timeline in their own right), there is little you can't do.
If you are using a production machine, you can still space-bar play/pause an aux timeline too - so there's little difference between Main timeline behaviour and Aux timeline behaviour anyway.
With regards to your "intermittent" issue however - i would check your MIDI ports / controllers.
Also ensure your production machine isn't lagging and is thumbnail only for display.
If i've ever had an issue with intermittent response, it has always been traced to something outside of Watchout (like Windows thinking the device had disappeared or something).
Thanks,
Rob