Thomas Leong
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Posts posted by Thomas Leong
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I know someone who has the Zotac MA760 (AMD cpu with R7 gfx) which has 4 Display Port outputs instead of a mixture. It is relatively cheap barebones (without hd and os) - USD 300-400? Apparently 4-8 x 1920x1080 MPEG2 outputs is not a problem, so usable for us as long as we can control our media.
So if you are willing to step back a bit to an AMD cpu instead of Intel, that is something worth looking at.
Myself, I am still on 4th gen intel CPUs, and using mATX mobos in a low-profile HTPC cheap <USD25 case with low profile Noctua cooling, low profile Magewell capture card, and SFX psu. With a height of <110mm, it all fits into a light aluminium suitcase which we used to use for 35mm film cameras, accessories those days. Very portable but does not have the visual impression of a media server. Now considering adding a X99 mATX, or Z270 mATX, or Ryzen, as a second HTPC-style unit.
Thomas Leong
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I have not...yet. Am still considering as the Ryzen is very new and has limits till AMD develops its firmware/BIOS to improve it, if they decide to.
Ryzen is apparently limited to not clocking more than 4.0-4.1GHz, and it apparently cuts out the cpu as a safety feature when the limit is reached thereabouts. Dangerous for us for the cpu to cut off mid-way through a presentation moment that requires more cpu usage. So recommendation is not to over-clock to its limit. All the Ryzen variants are also limited to max 2400MHz RAM.
One of Ryzen's good points is that the first PCIe3.0 x16 slot is locked to 16 lanes (some mobo manufacturers may split it to 8/8 if the second PCIe x16 slot is also occupied - eg by a capture card - but not many manufacturers do). Likewise any 32Gb/s M.2 NVME x4 slot. So at least, with most mobos, one is assured the graphics card and M.2 will run at its full potential. With the M.2 slot, just be aware that some mobo manufacurers may have it share lanes with other PCIe slots. Study the specs/manual before buying!!
For a detailed, IMO, very good analysis of Ryzen (and any mobo for that matter) I like http://www.hardwarecanucks.com.
Thomas Leong
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Jfk asked:
"Anyone have any good reference links for what it takes to
prepare a "decent computer" with capture cards
to serve as a good WATCHOUT NDI source?"You may want to reference this from vMix. Not that high specs, it would seem -
http://www.vmix.com/products/vmix-reference-systems.aspx
Thomas Leong
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Sudden reboots generally point to power problems.
- Check your power connections from back of PC to source power point. Ensure they are secure. Loose connections will cause reboots.
- check psu connections to the motherboard.
- Try another psu in the Display PC, preferably one with more power (watts)
I think network issues could also cause sudden reboots, so -
- check with a straight ethernet cable (network adapters in the last 5 years or so are auto-sensing, i.e. do not need a cross cable)
- check Power Management properties of the network adapter and untick 'Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power'
Also run through the tweaking recommendations for Watchout :
http://forum.dataton.com/topic/1886-watchout-technical-notes-2015/
Good luck!
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I am using watchout 6 for live opera. But sometimes live shows timing and video timing does not match. So i need to speed up or speed down the playpack speed on the fly. Is there anyway to do this.
Rather than vary the speed of the video to fit, I'd think of better options for live theatre.
One method -
First I assume that the video(s) do not need to 'finish' at a particular point for each scene/act. If they do, then edit another video to start at 'near to' the desired end point.
Next ensure the video to played at a particular scene/act is longer than necessary by at least 1-2 minutes. If the speed is not important/visibly annoying, you can use the 'Playback Speed' under Advance Properties of the Media to slow it down and thereby extend the duration.This should be sufficient for most variations between most shows, except perhaps the final show where actor(s) may take 'unplanned for' actions (I have had one who sobbed emotionally at the final scene, and took some time to recover before continuing).
Use Aux Timelines, and a higher order Aux Timeline to fade in the next video (either via an opacity tween at the beginning or controlled by MIDI). Being on a higher order, the media in the Aux Timeline will 'cover' the lower order media. After that you can manually stop the lower order Aux Timeline.
Thomas Leong
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What is the best way to prevent explorer.exe from starting upon Win 10 booting?
I have not tried the following with Win 10, but tried, tested and reversed in Win 7. Doubt if there are any differences in procedure between the two.
You have to edit the Shell key in your Registry. If you are not familiar with Registry editing, and before you do this, strongly suggest you make a backup copy of your existing Registry.
1. Run regedit
2. Navigate to Computer\HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon
3. Double-click on the Shell Key
4. Change explorer.exe to the path where Watchpoint is. Example: d:\Watchout 6\Watchpoint
5. Exit regedit, and reboot.
6. Windows will load, but explorer will not. Watchpoint loads after Windows.
You may get 'licence key not found'...not to worry and be patient. Takes a few extra seconds for USB and network driver to load before you see the normal Watchout logo and Display x, and IP address. If you have other parameters controlling Watchpoint loading, make a shortcut in the Watchout 6 folder with the parameters included in your Watchpoint shortcut, and in the Shell edit above, do not use 'Watchpoint.exe'. Just 'Watchpoint' will do.
7. Should you want to access Explorer after the above edit OR change back to what you had before:
- Ctrl+Shift+Esc will bring up the Task Manager
- in File > run New Task > type in explorer.exe OR regedit and change the Shell back to explorer.exe
- Close regedit
- Log-out and log back in, or reboot PC. Explorer will now load.
Thomas
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I have resisted for a couple of days commenting on this, and since no one else has, I can't resist any more!
Songyost,
'Touching bottom' is a tRump specialty
.I think you meant 'touching button'. So, in my opinion, your statement and question should read -
I connected watchnet to display when I touch button1 the image1 is ok but
If I touch next button image1 stopped and image2 shows.
They are reversing every time pls help me to solve this
Thank you
I think it depends on what commands you have linked to button1 and button2. More details would help. Else, suggest you contact your Dataton Premium Partner, send them the Watchnet file, and they may be able to help.
Other than that, I'm not conversant with Watchnet, so perhaps someone else can help too.
Thomas
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"...Watchout 6 seems to keep loosing display computer!"
1. What exactly were you doing or rather what was the Display computer doing when it lost connection?
2. Having lost the connection, does Watchpoint on the Display PC still work? Is Windows Explorer still running or has Windows hung?
3. Having lost the connection, does Watchmaker on the Production PC still work?
4. What have you done to check your network adapter / network switch / network cables on both Display PC and Production PC?
5. How many network adapters are present on the Display PC? Production PC? Are the unused ones 'Disabled'? Note: Not connected DOES NOT = Disabled.
6. Have you tried a direct connection between Production and Display PCs, bypassing any switch/hub?
7. Have you installed any 3rd party codec pack in either PCs?
8. Are both Display PCs and Production PCs tweaked according to the Tweak List : http://forum.dataton.com/topic/1886-watchout-technical-notes-2015/
9. What version of Windows are in either PC?
10. Which version of Watchout 6?
11. Other than Windows and Watchout and perhaps Quicktime, any other software installed in the Display PC? If so, please list.
May be more questions later, but that should do trying to figure out where a solution may lie.
Thomas Leong
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Hi Alex,
I had a glance at your video examples, and have one question: that you/we are viewing them on a Production PC. However, your Stage Window shows a curved desk as well as the wall of monitors.
1. Is that a live video capture of the studio scene? If yes, this means a more resources are being used at the same time on the Production PC (live video capture).
2. In my own tests, I have noticed that the Production PC's performance as seen in the Stage Window may be lower than the Display PC. Together with Windows Explorer, WatchMaker uses more resources than Watchpoint. Stutters may therefore show up on the Prodn PC's Stage Window, but the Display PC's individual outputs would be ok.
3. If H264 is crashing Watchpoint in the Display PC, try progressively with one output less. You may reach a point where H264 will not crash Watchpoint, i.e. in Production, output to 3 displays instead of 4 and update Display PCs, then 2 out of 4, etc. If such is the case, then you have discovered the performance limit of that particular Display PC.
Thomas Leong
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HenryBell said: "...I read that the external PCIE enclosure bypasses the onboard graphics. Would this be the same as Integrated intel graphics on a desktop and then a GPU in a PCIE port?"
Also:
...The Graphics Amplifier works with the laptop, and when connected to the system, registers as the laptop's primary graphics card, bypassing the onboard GPU and offering desktop-class performance...
The above clause you attached looks promising for Watchout use.
I think on boot up, with the gfx amplifier attached, IF the laptop's own display is blank, and BIOS + Windows' boot process shows up only on the monitors attached to the gfx amplifier (a'la a desktop's behaviour with 3rd party gpu in a slot), that would prove that the gfx amplifier is registered as the laptop's primary gpu, and Watchout would work with that.
I guess, at worse, you could use the purchase as a powerful Production PC.
Thomas
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Not sure about the Thunderbolt 3 part (I've never tried) but my main concern would be because Watchout can only use ONE graphics card, and with a laptop, there would be two - mainboard + the gfx amplifier - Watchout may default to the mainboard's gfx even if one sets Windows to default to the gfx amplifier. With a desktop pc, the mobo's gfx can be disabled in BIOS, and a 3rd party gfx would work with Watchout. Now if a laptop's BIOS could disable the mainboard's gfx, Watchout should then theoretically work (Having said that, I'm now curious, and will have to shut this laptop down and boot into BIOS to check!)
I've tried this with my laptop (no power house) which has a Nvidia 840M for one extended output, and Watchout would not use/'see' the Nvidia even when Nvidia and Windows 10 are set to default to it. Reset back to the mainboard gfx, and viola, the laptop would work as a Display PC (single output though). This is with Windows 10, not tried with a Windows 7 laptop.
Update:
My laptop's BIOS has a choice of which gfx option to boot up with - Discrete or motherboard's. Chose 'Discrete' and connected HDMI out to 2nd monitor. Ensured Windows sees 2nd monitor as Extended. Under Windows 10, Watchout 6.x still would not load Watchpoint. Back to booting up with motherboard gfx option instead of the Nvidia, and Watchpoint loaded up properly and displayed fine without problems.
It could be Win10. Suggest you try the Alienware and the external gfx amp with Watchpoint before buying, or at least have a refund-if-does-not-work-with-your-intended-application policy in place with the seller.
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Similar to Steve Farris' suggestion, perhaps you could install a 2nd version of the OS on another physical hdd/sdd, and preferably have a disk-swap tray system installed in the PC for easy swapping of OS. This ensures the WO system remains untouched.
But for me, personally, I have After Effects, Photoshop, Handbrake, etc in my display pc, and have not had any trouble with WO when used as a Display PC. One learns eventually what is required, what disturbs, where to look and what to look out for, and how to solve without uninstalling other required programs. In this respect, Codec Tweak Tool for Windows 7 (works under Win 10 as well) helps in the learning and discovery process (just make screen captures of the codecs with/without, etc). However, I am the only one using these PCs - nobody else.
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AFAIK, for each media cue Properties, under Basic tab, change the auto-assigned alignment from 'Centre' to 'Top Left' should do the trick.
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35-wall output from 3 licences...mmm, that's possible as each licence can output to max 6 outputs per Display PC. It would depend also on the built-in feature/capability of the panels used in the wall.
I once did a 12-wall output from a 1 x 3-output Display PC because the Samsung wall panel could be configured to split a single DVI input into 4 outputs daisy-chain connected. The difficulty was, as you have discovered, controlling the production aspect ratio and resolution of the source video file(s). The 12-wall setup was arranged 2x6-wide (3 sets of 2x2 side by side). How is your 35-wall arranged?
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Never tried the one you mention. I have the (since discontinued) low-profile legacy card which captures SDI or DVI, and sold 2 of the bigger brothers for Watchout use. Works fine with Watchout. Latency perhaps about 2-4 frames slower than the Datapath models. And someone else here has used the USB-HDMI model with Watchout as well.
On their software compatibility page, Watchout is listed as compatible. That may be re-assuring?
http://www.magewell.com/compatible-software
Thomas Leong
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It is not complete automation, but one could semi-automate programming with a MIDI Controller by using presets with the setInput command to preset various tweens between 0 and 1, or the limits of 0 and 1 for a particular Controller.
For example, preset a media to start at a certain scale when the Controller is at 0 value, and does not scale beyond a pre-determined size when value is at 1. Same applies to position tweens on screen limiting the X,Y position on screen. However, with Position, the scale of the media must be taken into account. A lot of trial and error to find the correct formula to apply in Tween.
Put the setInput command(s) in Aux Timeline(s) appropriately named and trigger the relevant timeline(s) as and when to preset your scale, position, etc. Manually adjust with the physical controller thereafter, if required.
Thomas Leong
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Instead of Watchnet, you could use the free WATCHOUT REMOTE APPLICATION.
It will provide you a reading of the Timeline's time. However, you will need a secure wi-fi connection between the Display PC and the Android/Apple Remote to make the connection.
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...
I need a clip reused multiple times to slow its playback speed at different times every time.
It would save me from having to render multiple versions of the exact same clip only with different speeds.
Any advice ?
...If you need the clip to run at different speeds each time you use it, suggest you just copy-paste-and-rename the copies in Windows first. Then in Watchout, just apply a different speed to each copy. Saves re-rendering time.
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The AMD WX7100 provides four DisplayPort 1.2 outputs.
...Small correction Jim.
According to AMD specs, the WX7100 has DP 1.4 outputs. The older W7100 is DP 1.2.
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Llyod,
With the word 'out', I meant 'now available for purchase'. As for compatibility with Watchout, untested by me...but I would not doubt its compatibility being the successor to the W7100.
Your 4th item is not clear -
4. SAMSUNG 960 EVO 500GB M.2 2280 PCI-Express 3.0 x4 500G SSD MZ-V6E500BW with USB 3.0 HUB
Firstly, where in a SSD or M.2 does the 'USB 3.0 Hub' come from?
If you meant -
Samsung 960 EVO 500GB SSD for the Operating System, that is fine. Dataton does recommend that one keeps the Operating System on a physically separate device to Watchpoint. Personally, I have not seen nor tested any difference whether one does so or not. All I have observed is that playing media from Watchpoint does incur quite a bit of resource overhead versus playing the same media from a normal software-based media player like Windows Media Player, vlc, or Quicktime. So it is best to keep to recommendations from Dataton (manufacturer knows best).
And if you meant -
Samsung M.2 2280 PCI-Express 3.0 x4 500G SSD MZ-V6E500BW for Watchpoint, which is a Samsung 960 EVO M.2, then I suggest you opt for the 960 Pro instead of the EVO. More expensive, yes. But the Pro version uses MLC Nand whereas the EVO models use the cheaper TLC nand. Performance consistency, and duration are better with MLC nand, thereby the main cause of the price difference.
As for the power supply, if you do not intend to have capture cards in the Display PC, 1200w is, in my opinion, overkill. A 650-850w psu will be more than enough if only one capture card is intended in the future. Re-direct the savings toward the 960 Pro M.2.
Thomas
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jonasf,
I can assure you that Watchout is not broken where dmx output is concerned.
If you are absolutely certain that your setup is compliant in terms of cabling, addressing, artnet, etc...then, rather than looking at the differences between our setups, perhaps we should look at the common factors between your 2 setups - the one at the museum, and the one back at the office. At a guess, it would be the Production PC/laptop being used.
So, with Watchout v6.1.4 -
1. Try using another Production PC/laptop (different brand and model)
2. Windows 7, 8.1 or 10? Ensure operating system version is different between 1st and 2nd PC.
3. Ensure the PC is tweaked in accordance with Dataton's guidelines:
http://forum.dataton.com/topic/1886-watchout-technical-notes-2015/
Not tweaking the PC accordingly can cause unexplained problems such as what you are experiencing.
4. Look hard at manufacturer's bloatware that comes pre-installed with the laptop. I had one or two of these with my Lenovo that affected my network connection between Production PC and Display PCs until I uninstalled it. If you do not need it installed, uninstall it!
5. Look at other applications you have installed in the PC that you do not need when using Watchout, in particular ones that need a network connection of some sort - updates, etc. Un-install one-by-one and test. If you find a culprit, please share the info.
I'll add more clues if the 7 ounces of mud above my shoulders clears up some...
Thomas
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One more, probably most important, aspect is that I see an ELC logo in your video, and on checking your first post, notice that we missed out on the fact that you are using an ELC dmxLAN Node 1S controller with Watchout.
Though this product converts dmx to Ethernet and vice versa, nowhere in the brochure is 'Artnet' mentioned.Artnet is a protocol (not to be confused with Ethernet). Watchout uses the Artnet protocol, so I doubt if your dmx controller is compatible with Watchout, and is probably the source of all your mentioned problems with Watchout.Please try with
a compatibleanother Artnet DMX Controller like Kissbox, Sandbox, Enttec ODE, etc.Retraction:
I downloaded and installed the ELC config software v4.2 for their boxes, and Artnet is provided as a choice under Preferences for the network type. Though the brochure does not mention Artnet compatibility for the Node 1S unlike the brochure for the dmXLAN Buddy model, the unit appears to be. Therefore the corrections above. However, I do not have a unit to apply the config software to confirm.
If the Artnet protool is being used, the anomalies in behaviour illustrated in the videos are not being experienced by Morgan and myself.
Thomas
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My analysis of your demo video is that you have your understanding of your fixture's DMX channels all wrong. I fell into the same hole when I first started.
You will notice that when you lowered DMX 1 by a small amount, it triggered Blue to literally cut out, and nothing happens thereafter between values 90-10 or thereabouts. At about 10% or less, Red cuts out.
Next nothing happens when DMX 2 is lowered, until at about value 0 and Green cuts out, even though DMX 3 is still at 100%. This seems to imply that Green is not DMX 3 or if it is, because DMX 1 is at 0, DMX 3 will not react.
Next, when DMX 3 is lowered, Blue immediately flashes on to 100%, then slowly fades down following DMX 3 value. This may imply that Blue has a DMX address of 3, but see below.
It is very rare that a fixture would have only 1 DMX channel these days, unless you are using fluros or incandecents in which case, you would need a dimmer.
So in the case of your latest illustration, using LEDs, I think that fixture has at least 4 DMX channels, maybe 5 (Morgan's seem to have 6; mine has 4), where -
DMX 1 is Intensity (and in my case, strobe/flash rates as well depending on the value)
DMX 2 is Red
DMX 3 is Green
DMX 4 is Blue
The DMX Address to set on the fixture is 1. It is implicit in the 'language of DMX control' that DMX 2, 3 and 4 are tied to this fixture when DMX 1 is set. This means, the next fixture down the chain will have a starting address 5 (and if the same type of fixture, occupy addresses 6, 7, and 8 as well). The 3rd fixture will have starting address 9, etc. Doing it any other way will result in unexpected behaviour as shown in your video. This assumes your fixture has 9 dip switches numbered 1-9. Mine has 10 where no.10 is DMX control when ON. For some other fixtures, it may be numbered 0 for DMX Control.
So try this -
1. DMX 1 value = 10%
DMX 3 value = 100%
Only Green should light up if your fixture follows the normal order of RGB.
2. DMX 3 = 0
DMX 2 = 100
and Red should light up.
3. DMX 2 = 0
DMX 4 = 100
and Blue should light up.
4. Leave Blue on at 100.
Now vary DMX 1 from 10% upwards slowly and see if the behaviour of Blue changes - gets more intense? flashes? Note the value(s) at which the intensity is steady and bright. For your installation, if you do not want flashes, you would set DMX 1 to this steady state for EVERY color/fixture of this type.
5. You may try DMX 5, 6, 7, etc to check if this fixture reacts to these other channels. If no reaction, then you have 4-channel fixture. If it reacts to channels 5, etc, then the next fixture's address is the channel number after that last reaction.
Similarly, if you have different type of fixtures in an installation, you need to discover the personality of those other fixtures in order to map your channel assignments properly for the whole install.
Thomas
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jonasf,
Your latest seems to be using LEDS versus your original which you said was going through dimmers (which may be a different kettle of fish). Is it a single fixture with 3 coloured LEDs, or 3 separate fixtures?
Re your latest test, I notice from the Watchout screen, you have only DMX 1,2 and 3 Outputs specified running from the Main Timeline. Have you tried Morgan's test dmx file? In Morgan's case, DMX 1 controls the Intensity (which, in my own initial ignorance, called 'catalyst/partner' channel), and DMX 2 = R, DMX 3=G, DMX 4=B. Like Morgan, my own tests with my LED fixture does not exhibit the fade down anomalies that you have.
However, in the case of my small made-in-china DMX fixture, I use the same 4 channels as Morgan with the exception that when DMX 1 has a value of 1-61 or 95-100 this controls the steady-state intensity of my fixture, and when DMX 1 has a value between 62-94, it controls the flash rate of the fixture. The dip switches of my fixture are set to 1 and 10 on, where 10 is the DMX Control (off for dip switch 10 means manual control).
Essentially, my conclusion is that each fixture has its own personality. Therefore, in the absence of specs from the manufacturer, experimentation is essential to finding its personality and the DMX channels that will work with it.
So how are you connected to this latest test: direct from Artnet DMX to fixture, or via a dimmer? What settings are available on the fixture (dip switches? if yes, which switches are on/off), and dimmer? What is the dimmer (manufacturer, model)? Are you daisy chaining your fixtures, or dimmers? If daisy-chaining, are your dimmers intelligent enough to auto apply a termination to the last fixture, or do you not have termination? Without termination, I understand that the data could flow back down the channels and cause the lights to behave in an unexpected manner.
Thomas
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Sound issues Watchout 5.5.2 and Windows 7
in WATCHOUT FORUM
Posted
If memory serves me right, Win 7 had problems with firewire in its early days. Maybe google may prove my memory right or wrong.
Is your Win 7 fully updated?
Thomas Leong