Claude.Rivet

The big issue with FIPs is that there will be tearing in the blend area as subtle timming differences will appear. Your solution is to use Watchout stations that can be frame locked with a mixer that can be framelocked (spyder x20 for example) and then you are good to go. That being said if your show is all discrete screens you'll be ok, the issue truly is the blend areas.

Thank you so much! Will keep you informed if I ever manage to fine-tune it even more. JFK: The amount of files that can mix will affect the live input frame rate and to a certain extent vice-versa. I am blaming the 4GB ram limit after testing with intel XTU. Indeed when I have a live feed on screen no more than 3 files can be mixed into 3 other files, else the live feed stutters or freezes for a second or so. On a large amount of files the mix fluidity is affected but not very much, nonetheless it is noticeable. Progressive is worse than interleaced but progressive does take more bandwith hence me leaning on the ram bottleneck rather than CPU which never goes above 35-40% 2-4cores out of 8. But yeah de-interlacing does take more CPU ressource but not enough to choke it it seems.

Hello fellow watchout programmers! Disregard my previous post with same title I inadvertently sent it and it was not finished I started learning ffmpeg and now I have a few questions regarding encoding and how Watchout uses various options. 1- encoding for multiple thread (x264lib flag ans other codecs also): basically encode in a way that when the file is read it is decoded by as many core as there are specified thread. So encoding for 8 thread would make sure my 8 cores are used when reading the file. I noticed Watchout very rarely use 8 core on my system, 4 is common and most often it's two. even when reading 24HD files concurently. Would encoding for 8 threads solve that? What would be the effects: -If I play back a 40Mbps file will it basically be the equivalent as far as load time and fluidity and possible concurent files as playing a 5Mbps file encoded for 1 thread? -Does Watchout support multiple thread decoding? -lets pretend my file is encoded for 8 thread and I read it on a system that has 2 cores and no hyperthread, will the file read? Will it be the equivalent of playing back the same file but encoded for one thread or will it be more demanding for the system? 2- As far as watchout goes I once was told mpeg2 was the holy grail of Watchout format as it was very easy to read and of high quality. In my experience it is true, I can play more mpeg2 files than mpeg4 files and quality-wise it fits my needs quite well. However this was a few years ago, how about now? Still the prefered format? Since I have access to ffmpeg and can now turn on or off pretty much any flag is there some settings you guys know are optimal? 3- I need to encode files in 1920x1200, it is not an ideal resolution and even though I am sure it will encode in mpeg4 I doubt it will without issues in mpeg2. I will need to play at least 8 concurent files at that resolution and it needs to be very fluid, no stutter or hiccups. A possible solution would be to encode the file in anamorphic 16:9 and strecth it back to 16:10 in Watchout but if I could avoid that it would be awesome. I need the file to play back near instantly so heavy codecs like photo jpeg or animation and to be avoided. Keep in mind I can play 12 HD files in mpeg2 and mix them in 12 other HD files encoded in mpeg2 with no issue on my system for as long as there is no live input on screen, 40Mbps files. Sorry for the long post but I need to access our collective minds on these issues thanks for the help regards For reference, my system: Windows7, heavilly customized and stripped-down, basically Watchout only system 8core i7 16GB Ram V9100 Firepros VisionRGB SDIpro2 M.2 XP941 SSD drive

am I seeing Macs? Will WO 6 work on Macs or is it just a thing to have to booth look prettier? thanks

Good day, I just built two Watchout display machine using the knowledge found on these forums so I come back here to get your inputs regarding the fine tuning. I ran some test on both machine and some results are puzzling. The machine are: -X99 chipset -i7 5960x -AMD Firepro 9100 -AMD S400 sync module -Datapath VisionSDI2 -16GB DDR4 ram -128GB Samsung EVO ssd for system -512GB Samsung XP941 M2 ssd for shows -Encrypted WD 250GB HD used solely by Acronis with b/u images -Customized win7 64 installation (many features removed, services disabled and of course all settings configured according to the manual and past experience with building WO stations) My goal was to be able to run 24 mpeg2s at 40mbps concurently, done deal but according to my maths I would even be able to run more so I started intel XTU and made the graph show the last 1 hour results. I started the display and ran some content. I will spare you the details but essentially when running only videos I was able to mix 12 videos into 12 other videos with no hiccup, when including live camera feed trough the visionSDI2 I was able to run the same content but during the mix the live feed would greatly stutter and lag, to be able to run the live feed and videos and mix without any issue whatsoever I could mix 3 videos with 3 videos. I haven't tested many file format and I am sure they were not optimal but I had to figure where my bottleneck was or what part of my system was not performing well. According to intel XTU my processor never got used by more than 30%, spent most of it's time with only 4 out of 8 cores running and the most ram that got used was barely above 4GB... weird no? Other than that I realized that my processor speed was all over the place and that got me thinking, could speedstep and turboboost actually be detrimental to WO? Since the processor keep adjusting itself as the cues are sent maybe the stutter and lag comes from this adjustment? I am not able to test right now but in the meanwhile can you guys provide me with your knowledge regarding hardware and software settings that could help WO make the most out of these machines? thanks much and sorry for the long post regards

Alright, found what I was looking for and since I looked a lot I will post the result, might be useful: Concerning X99 chipset and the 8core i7, cooling is an issue. In a 4U rackmount case watercooling doesn't fit or awckwardly does. Air cooling is an issue as you can almost only use standing heat sink which are very tall. Long story short ; I found the Noctua NH-U9DXi4 which is 125mm tall and fits any 4U rackmount case AND is reccomended for X99. Very solid according to reviews. I will post my appreciation of the unit once installed and tested. Thanks again for all the help guys! Jonas, you're a saver. regards

Thanks again for those answers, will follow your advices. Folow-up questions: -Watercooling? For road use, I was under the impression watercooling kits were not very road worthy but I am probably wrong it seems, any model you are sure of? -I am tempted to use the Samsung XP941 m2 x4 SSD card, bandwith is impressive (1.1GB/s) but it's new tech and it performs better under win 8.1. Am I better off with a Samsung EVO drive, a raid of EVO drive... ? I know 24HD streams will be rough but it's the max possible situation, I doubt we will reach it, worse case we'll lower to 30fps or use 20mbps files I guess but bandwith-wise the system should handle it, happy to now know it doesn't mean it will

Thanks a lot for all the inputs! Consider I don't want performance at the cost of stability. I will specify what I mean by beast: my goal is to be able to handle 24 1080p 60fps 40mbps mpeg2 files running at the same time with concurent live input(s) (1 or 2). So, If I can pick your collective mind a bit more; -How about the system, which is reccomended, win7 or 8.1? -RAM, is Watchout still a 32 bit app and there is no point in fitting more than 4GB of RAM in a display computer? If it can take advantage of more, my maths tell be 2GB per core is more than enough but I read 12GB is not reccomended and pick 16GB instead to have an even number of memory modules, makes sense or am I forgetting something? -Inputs, I plan on using BMD mini recorder cards as inputs, 2 if possible, are they good choice for 1080p 60 streams? Any recommandations? -Case, I am looking to build a station that will be on the road, I need holders for the cards, a good ventillation system, filters. My last pick was a rosewill 4U rackmount case but it doesn't exist anymore. -Bandwith-wise an SSD raid (samsung EVO) and the new X99 chipset with a 6 core i7 seems to be able to pull it off but my guess is you guys have a much better idea than me on what is possible or not. I haven't programmed and even less built WO systems in 3 years so I feel insecure about buying a system using my previously acquired knowledge, I want to make sure it will work as flawlessly as possible, I have 2 weeks to build it so That's why I am asking all those nagging questions Thanks for your understanding and help regards

A few questions regarding eyefinity 6 with WO: (haven't built a WO system in 3 years so I'm catching up) I see many people getting Fire Pros (w9000), whereas I remember WO requiring only very basic graphic cards as the processing was performed on CPU rather than GPU, is there an advantage in using a much more expensive w9000 card? When using 2 mini-displayport to MST hubs are there frame locking issues between outputs/hubs, different latency between the two hubs or any timming issue vs using a 6 out FirePro (where I expect the 6 out to be frame locked)? (waving in the blend area because of subtle timming differences in blend area where the 2 hub overlap, live input showing different lag depending on the hub displaying the PiP) Basically, is there any advantage in using the FirePro for an eyefinity6 setup? I want to build a beast to drive 6 outputs, money at this point is no object but the advantage need to be real and all output need to be driven by one display computer. thanks much! regards

Good day! I need to build 2 display machines with 6 output each. They will be able to act as a production unit as well as a display unit, they need to be beast. 3 years ago I built workstations for a client with an SSD drive and a 6 output ATI card, it worked very well, I was able to play 16 HD 40mbps mpeg2 files with no problem. Considering we are 3 years later I was planning on dual m2 ssd raid0 or 3 sataIII SSD in raid, combined with an X99 i7 (8cores) and DDR4 ram (whatever is needed, last I checked WO was still 32bits, 3 years ago). Now one of the issue I am having is the graphic card. I need a card that can drive 6 output and was wondering what was the go-to card for that, they seem rare nowadays. Also I guess WO still doesn't use the graphic card much and does most of the processing on the CPU but this might have also have changed so an old card could do the trick but I need beast so let's go with what's best. Also input cards, I would like to have 3g HDSDI inputs (ideally 4:4:4) with minimal lag, ideally 2, or 2 DVI inputs, whatever has minimal lag between both. What would be the recommandations? I remember having a list from Showsage on how to configure Windows properly, probably got updated, is it availlable here on the site? Maybe you guys post example builts, haven't found some on the site but can't hurt to ask . One last thing: licensing is the same or it changed? (need a key to drive a display or to output QT movies or MIDI/DMX from the production unit), how much? Thank you for considering my questions regards

I can provide specs but it would be irellevant in the sense that I am trying to spec the machine and want to find a good method to do so. For the sake of this exercise let's pretend I am given machines I know nothing of and want to find out how well they can run Watchpoint, what method should I use to determine the machine capabilities? How would you test the machine to determine what bit rate videos it can take, how many HD streams it can playback and so on and so forth? To me running SoW on a local machine while running content in Watchpoint would give me the info I need but it turns out the result are generating more questions than answers. Also, if a video encoded in animation stutters it seems my computer can't handle it, how come the mpeg2 file I play concurently is playing back smoothly then? That makes no sense. The SoW result tell me that somehow the animation file is being loaded in RAM entirelly, since I do not have enough page file in kicks in and chokes as it is also too small, meanwhile the mpeg2 file is being read smoothly... anyways, here goes: Intel 6600 cpu 1GB ram 7200rpm WD Hard Drives ATI 3800 GPU WinXP

Only for the multiple out feature. I made a post to make sure WinXP was otherwise good, Mike Fahl answered stating the only thing lost is the multiple out, and otherwise it should run fine. They won't be used for crazy stuff anyways, just playback but I still need to know to which extent, hence me testing and benchmarking them.

Hello all, I am trying to figure out the capabilities of an old system we are using. It has been updated to WO5, runs on WinXP sp3 (all configured according to tweak list, not using multiple out anyways). I made several medias I am using to test a few things: 1- best codec and codec settings 2- disk read 3- cpu load 4- memory usage Basically I want to give a list of the capabilities of the system and judge if we still have a use for it. I am running "Spotlight on Windows" to obtain the various numbers I need, locally, not via network. Here are the weird stuff I can't figure: - An HD Animation file stutters, skips and basically choke my computer, when looking at SoW it seems that neither CPU or disk is being stressed. The only thing peaking and choking is page file in... page file has been set to 1.5x amount of RAM and to systenm reccomended value, no change, page file in chokes no mather what. - Funny part is if I play back an mpeg2 HD video over this the mpeg2 plays fine, well, barely stutters here and there but nothing big, it would still be usable. - mp4 files also display problems but to much lesser extent, problem is SoW shows nothing wrong, not even page file in peaks. - if I play several file concurently some of them play back very smoothly some stutter, how is that even possible considering not system component get stressed? How can those file stutter then? Where am I going wrong? I want to benchmark those computers for Watchout but the result I get are just plain weird, maybe it is SoW, maybe it,s the way I work, no clue. SO: 1- What software you guys use to evaluate a display computer performance? Any settings I should be aware of? 2- If page file in chokes basically I need more RAM or is there anything else? I always was thaught that Watchout does not store the entire movie in RAM but rather a few frames at a time, a few frames of animation codec does not reach above 2GB or even 1GB, how can page file starts acting up like that? 3- What can make a file stutter and other not while playing back at the same time? Sorry long post but I am at lost and can't figure out a good procedure to test my machines at this point. Usually if a file chokes my system I assume I need to reduce the bit rate or that the CPU works too much or the disk but now that I measure it using a monitoring software I get a whole different picture. Thanks much, regards

Ok I tried feeding the Spyder with a multiple output display computer and the issue was less apparent, the frequency was read properly in the sense that the 3 outputs were read at the same frequency. Although I got some strange issue where output #3 was seen as 1280x960 even though it was set at 1280x720 in both the display computer and Watchout. Catalyst control center was confirming the output at 1280x720 and the EDID comming from the Spyder was set at 1280x720 The content was not scaled but rather letterboxed inside the 1280x960. In the end we just cropped the 1280x960 to 1280x720 but the problem remained. The problem came from the Spyder because connecting the output 3 to another monitor was giving us 1280x720. Anyways, important part is we know that multiple output display computer have less issues as far as timing goes when connecting into a Spyder system. I still think genlocking GPUs and input cards from the Spyder would greatly help so I have to try this. In the meanwhile we will use multiple out display computers. Fun stuff, thanks for your help so far!

The problem is in the blend region and it affects everything, not just live feed, or animations, all of it (pre-splits, discrete files, scaled movies...). The problem shows mostly during rapidly changing content, but I suspect it is also present during still images but because of the nature of a still it doesn't show as much. HDSDI is not deinterlaced as the card is fed with a progressive signal (although we did use interlaced signal from time to time, not much different appart from the slight delay induced by the de-interlacing). We used Barcos and Christies, various models. When watchout is used alone the problem is not as visible, mostly perceptible on live content but even then not much, I could genlock the input card I guess. When fed trough Encore or Spyder the added delay makes the problem worse and then it becomes an issue. Since those units read the outputs of the various watchout display computer at very slightly different scan rate (59.99996Hz, 59.5554Hz) when set at 60Hz I suspect the problem could be solved but either feeding Encore and Spyder from a multiple out watchout display computer or genlocking the outputs (the firepro solution). Yes I did try 1080p 30Hz, 1280x720 75Hz and a whole lot of other resolutions and scan rates but the problem remain, the read scan frequency slightly differ on each display computer. We cannot get firepro cards right now but I will deffinitely try the multiple out solution soon and get back with the result. If you have any other solution to suggest go for it, this problem has been plaguing us for years but until now we worked around it, it is becoming more and more troublesome to do so since the new trend here is to use Watchout to augment pixel density not enlarge the projection surface, therefore avoiding blend areas is less and less feasible.

Thank ya sir! I will get the project moving now.

Hello good people, I have some old system here we would need to get working for a few months on a project, we cannot really update anything that imply a cost. That is where it gets tricky. All systems are running WinXP and I was wondering if WO 5 could be stable under WinXP. I seem to recal some functionnalities are not working with WinXP (multiple output being one) but I have no idea about stability and a complete list of lost features. I searched the forums but haven't stumbled upon anything satisfactory. Could anyone give me a clear statement regarding WO 5 and WinXP, works? What features aren't availlable? Stable? Thanks a lot for answering for those who will!

It took me quite some time to get back to this thread, I got pretty busy and kind of let it go but now things are slower so I can get back to this reccuring problem. Thank you all for your answers. Things I need to check: -using one computer with several output, I tried but only pictures were used so it's hard to say if that was the solution but it deffinitelly need more testing, it does seem like a possible solution to our issues. -Using FirePro cards and genlocking them. This to me seems like a good solution as the problem really seem to be the various cards not outputting exactly 60Hz or the exact same frequency. I do not care if the software itself is genlockable what I need genlocked is my vido output so this seems like a good solution. - the sound card thing is pretty interesting, I know I stumbled upon the issue with not a single sound card connected but still I have a feeling the most severe case happened with an audio connection on display 1 indeed, need to test that. -As for Encore and Spyder issues I read the linked post and all that was there I already knew, I sure know about Encore being the pickiest piece of hardware not only with cable lenght but litterally anything, been working for over 6 years with Encore, most often with watchout as Background and/or foreground unit. Source link cables are all copper, short, exact same lenght and you have issues, swap source link 1 cable betwen VP1 and VP2 with a new one and the PiP on VP4 finally shows content... funny, but not really, Encore is VERY tricky. As for the Spyder x20 it basically uses internal routing so it's not a cable thing. Of course those machine might be at fault but it would have shown with other pixel pushers (playback pro, a computer with a matrox card...) but it's not the case, then again I haven't tried with other media servers, just Watchout. Know that all component are being tested everytime we use them but we do not have the time to sit down and create dedicated test and this really adds up to the troubleshooting issue. Thank you all for your answers guys, awesome community we got there. I'll keep you informed if there is any devellopement. Sorry again for the delay.

Hello, I am trying to find a way to genlock Watchout or any equivalent, here is the reason/problem: -Everytime I use Watchout trough a system like Vista Spyder (X20 1608) or Folsom Encore (4VP system, background connections) I have issues with content not syncing from display to display computer, we are talking minute timing differences leading to either a wobble in the blend or a tearing. The problem is very obvious on scaled live video that is passed trough Watchout (being an HDSDI card we do feed it either data content (powerpoint for example), IMAG or HD video playback from an external source. However the problem also is present on any video playback, pre-split or not, going trough a blend. I suspect still images have the same issue but because of lack of motion it doesn't show in an obvious manner. When we look at the Spyder or Encore input for the exact aquired scan rate we realize 1 display could be at 59.9997 rather than 60 and the other 59.9995 for example. What we tried: -using a lot of keyframe in videos, as much as one keyframe per frame, basically compromising compression which is not a main concern to us. -encoding in a lot of format, h.264, wmv, mpeg, motionjpeg... The problem remains or always find it's way back. The issue being the output timing not the video sync. the problem does not exist or is less of an issue when Watchout is used alone and display computers are connected straight in the projectors, however it can still happen. What we haven't tried: -using one multiple output computer rather than several display computer, we will be limited in terms of processing power but we can find workaround to that, maybe it's the only way, maybe it doesn't change a thing -genlocking, which seems the best solution as all component in the system will slave to one clock. I have no clue how I could genlock a watchout display computer however. I can see myself genlocking the video input card as most have genlock inputs but to genlock the entire display computer is not something I tried or even know if it is possible. SO: -Has anyone experienced the issues we are having? -Have you found a solution? Details would be appreciated. -Can Watchout displays be genlocked? How? Sorry about the long post and thanks to those who will answer! regards

Thanks for the answer! Will try and update the thread with results.

Good day, Trying to play some large files off one computer driving 6 outputs. Right now our best result have been with pre-split H.264 .mov files, at 20fps. However we are having issues: 1- when trying to play 2 movies the second movie does not play, regardless of the movies bitrate (starting a 4300Kbps movie after a 4300Kbps movie gives the same result as playing a 4300Kbps movie after a 16Mbps movie). 2- The display computer can even loose connection at some point and we need to go offline then online again to regain control of the display computer. Also, when encoding we have this issue where despite limiting the data rate to 2500Kbps the movies are encoded at sometimes very high bitrate (16Mbps for example) My questions: 1- which encoding software is recomended by Dataton, mac or PC. Right now we are using Sorenson Squeeze. 2- which codec/settings gave you guys best result for pre-split movies on a 6 output computer 3- which codec/settings gave you best result for a movie played back on a 6 output computer (not pre-split, scaled) Thanks much for your input have a nice day!

hello to you all, I have been trying to use the dynamic image server and I keep getting errors like "server not responding" or "server timeout", the content doesn't display on the screen and when it does it is extremelly slow and laggy. I am using a gigabit network, production and display are i7, 4GB ram, 415MBs ssd drives, server at the moment is low spec. The server application opens the files as soon as requested but the display do not show them. I have questions: 1-what are the computer requirements for serving files (images and flash content)? 2-how do you set the server up for those who succeed at serving content (folder location, file names, file size, computer configuration, windows configuration...)? 3-Anyone experienced those issues? what solution did you find? thank you!

Thanks, as for the SSDs it was already configured as such. So just so I am really secure in my choice, no negative difference (performance or stability) in using Z68(or P67)/i7 over X58/i7? example: does intel transcoder intercepts H.264 streams leading to possible stability issues with Watchout, does the integrated graphic leads to issues with ATI eyefinity when using a 6 output display computer (using P67 over Z68 is a good choice in this case for example), will the reduced amount of PCI-express lane lead to bandwith issues when using an input card for HD-SDI or a frame grabber AND a 6 output card? These sort of things Thanks again! EDIT: chipset id was wrong and specification about paranoïa order has been placed, will keep the forum updated if I encounter issues

I was wondering if people tried the (not so) new i7 2600 with a 6 output display computer. I read how the infocomm computer was running on X58 and i7 but it is getting harder to get a decent X58 board and the reviews for the P67 and i7 2600 are really good. However I only care about Watchout performances and was wondering if you guys tried the i7 2600 and if there was any issues or what was the impact on performance compared to X58 and i7. Thanks!

Is it still required to work with a broadcast wave file or is there a way to use discrete file for each channel and assign it (wo5)?