Jump to content

Grandma 1 triggering Watchout 5.2 thru Artnet


Mccready
 Share

Recommended Posts

I was ask if I could trigger the video cues on watchout, from the Ma1.

 

I know it is possible, but since i have never do it in the past, i would like to get there ready for it.

 

So far, both side are already integrated in the show, and working well. So from that, i was told to only link both network, and add a artnet controller in watchout ( which would automaticaly add the 2.x.y.z ip address ).

 

From that, how is watchout reading the dmx data in order to trigger a cue? What options do I have with artnet triggering? Can i pause or do any other actions? Does anyone have a sheet with some infos?

 

Also, anyone did that in the past and have some tips for me?

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was ask if I could trigger the video cues on watchout, from the Ma1. ...

 

Yes, and the proper way to do that is with MIDI Show control.

 

I was ask if I could trigger the video cues on watchout, from the Ma1.

I know it is possible, but since i have never do it in the past, i would like to get there ready for it.

So far, both side are already integrated in the show, and working well. So from that, i was told to only link both network, and add a artnet controller in watchout ( which would automaticaly add the 2.x.y.z ip address ).

 

 

You would do that if you wanted to read DMX as an input,

but that would make little sense for triggering cues.

 

From that, how is watchout reading the dmx data in order to trigger a cue? 

 

 

There is only one way to read DMX data, as a universe / channel and a level

on that specific channel (or group of channels using extended precision in v6.2).

That is all that DMX offers.

 

That level data is available as a variable that can be used as a triggering condition 

for a Task (Auxiliary timeline).

 

Now if you are a glutton for punishment,

you could define your own methods of converting that channel level to trigger a cue,

but I would not recommend it.

The means writing an equation and a command for every cue you want to trigger.

ie. wrong tool for the job.

 

MIDI Show Control is a cue based protocol 

and perfectly suited for the task.

 

What options do I have with artnet triggering? Can i pause or do any other actions?

 

Well, with ArtNet/DMX, since it is user defined, you can do anything you can do in a timeline,

i.e. pause, locate or start itself or other timelines, send string cues, etc.

 

What ArtNet/DMX input is well suited for 

is controlling live tweens - not cues.

 

Does anyone have a sheet with some infos?

 

Since it is not the best way to do it - none that I am aware of.

 

Also, anyone did that in the past and have some tips for me?

Thanks!

 

For many years we would demonstrate in our LDI trade show exhibit

a lighting console triggering WATCHOUT using MIDI Show Control.

That is the way it done in most NYC theaters.

(BTW Show Sage teaches how to use MIDID Show Control

ini its Theater Technicians training Class [not Dataton Academy).

 

MSC is a very versatile and elegant solution,

with support for multiple asynchronous cue triggers

via the the optional cuelist value.

 

BTW We would also use ArtNet/DMX to control live tweens in WATCHOUT

in the same setup that shows the console triggering cues via MSC

(the old "... two birds with one stone")

/jfk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the wonderful replay.

 

At first, I was planning to use MSC, although, since the console and the vdo station are pretty far away from each others, i thought it would be easier to use Artnet ( video and lighting switches are in the same room. )

 

So, instead of midi over ethernet software abd bla bla bla, only a quick link would make the process works.

 

Also, if I understand what you meant, you can choose an action to a certain level in the choose channel, right? Like if 52% would be a pause.. that is it?

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the wonderful replay.

 

At first, I was planning to use MSC, although, since the console and the vdo station are pretty far away from each others, i thought it would be easier to use Artnet ( video and lighting switches are in the same room. )

 

So, instead of midi over ethernet software abd bla bla bla, only a quick link would make the process works.

 

Why would you do that?

MIDI is a pretty robust balanced signal.

You can easily send it 200 meters.

(Providing you do not attempt to send power,

just the MIDI signal for that distance.)

 

The guys on the show control forum were joking about sending it over a metal fence out in a field.

 

Also, if I understand what you meant, you can choose an action to a certain level in the choose channel, right? Like if 52% would be a pause.. that is it?

Thanks

 

Yes, along those lines.

I would not rely on any specific percentage, but rather a range or threshold.

i.e. if Channel is above 50%, then ...

 or along those lines.

Plan on doing that for every cue in the show.

and then each condition will trigger an auxiliary timeline,

and then you have to write a cue for the action.

Be very familiar with the response characteristics of auxiliary timelines when doing this.

 

MIDI Show Control is as simple as typing in the lighting board cue number and your done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe blind go can be done easily with ArtNet,

but that is a very risky way to do it,

especially when there is no need to take that risk.

 

why are you fighting MSC?

 

Yes, there are some video server products that are specifically designed to work with ArtNet,

and those products are not well suited to professional video methods.

WATCHOUT is designed to work like any professional video editing product.

So I guess it is a matter of point of view,

if you are a lighting guy who does not want to learn professional video methods,

then I guess WATCHOUT is not your best choice.

Using ArtNet to trigger cues falls into the category of ...
"If all you have is a hammer, everything tends to look like a nail".

 

The other side of that is video producers would never want to use ArtNet

or a lighting board to program video playback beyond specific cue triggers.

 

MIDI Show Control is cue based.

ArtNet is level based.

Apples and oranges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

JFK; 

 

   I am not fighting against MSC, although Artnet is physically and technically easier in our environment. 

 

I have completed the first process through Artnet, but I am no facing a problem. Options you can trigger using Artnet are very limited. 

 

I am now trying to use MSC thru Ethernet, but I've got not answer from Watchout Production.

 

Here is where I am now; 

 

------------------

SETTINGS ; 

 

Here are my GrandMA1 settings; 

    Under Tools/Midi Show Control; 

        Midi Out;

             Device = 1

             Group ID = 1

             Send o ALL

            Port: 21928

             Ethernet Enabled

             MSC Command: ALL

             Executor: Default

             

I am using IPMIDI on Watchout Prod with Port 1 opened. 

Disabled all the firewalls

 

 

Here are my Watchout settings; 

    Preferences; 

         Control; 

            Midi Show Control, Device ID = 1

            MSC Cue Lists: Map All To Main Timeline

 

------------------

 

Questions; 

 

1. In Watchout, which input do I use to read the MSC ?

2. In GMa1, I created a sequences which I selected to turn it Default. How am I suppose to send command using it ?

 

 

I will use Midi-OX tomorrow in order to get more infos about what is sent.

 

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...

Questions; 

 

1. In Watchout, which input do I use to read the MSC ? ...

 

WATCHOUT uses the MIDI support built-in to Windows and

Windows built-in support only provides one MIDI input.

If you have more than one, then the product is using proprietary methods

not supported by WATCHOUT.

 

Having said that, I have used a MOTU FastLane whose driver creates two MIDI inputs,

and immediately after install, it would not work.

I was able to use MIDI-OX to correct that issue by routing one of the MIDI inputs.

No I can not provide details on what I did in MIDI-OX to fix it, that was quite some time ago (years)

and I stopped using the FastLane and changed to

a simple low cost MIDI interface (the one I use cost USD $10)

that only provides one MIDI input with no driver install (uses default Windows MIDI driver).

Keeping it simple removes a lot of unnecessary troubleshooting.

 

2. In GMa1, I created a sequences which I selected to turn it Default. How am I suppose to send command using it ?

 

 

I do not understand the question, but then I know very little about GrandMA operation.

You would need to work with support from that product to determine its proper use.

 

I do recall that GrandMA sends cue numbers in an unexpected manner.

I am not sure, but I believe things like cue 3 are sent as 3.000 ,

so you would have to enter the control cue name as 3.000 not just 3.

WATCHOUT does a string comparison, not a numerical comparison,

with the value in the MSC packet and the names of control cues.

This is done because some consoles send cue values that are not valid numbers

(things like cue 3.2.4) and the string comparison accommodates such irregularities.

 

MIDI-OX should reveal that if you know how to decipher a System Exclusive MSC packet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...