DISPLAY PC BUILD WOv6

[edgar pulido]

Hi Everyone,

 

I want to build a display PC for watchout v6. I'm wandering if dual xeon cpu will work. The specs are below:

 

INTEL XEON E5-2687 2x

SUPER MICRO X10-DAi

RAM DDR4 16.0GB/2133 CRUCIAL ECC  4x 64GB TOTAL

SSD 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO-7KE512BW RAID 0

SAPPHIRE FIREPRO W8100

RGB VISION E2S 2DVI

RGB VISION SDI2

 

Any thoughts on this? please advise.

 

thanks in advance.,

Edgar Pulido

 

[TomT]

Hi Edgar,

 

WO is a 32 bit solution so it can´t use more then 2 Gb Ram and one core.

Even quicktime is a 32 bit.

 

2 x INTEL XEON E5-2687 will have 32 cores (with HT)

What shall they do?

 

Samsung 850 Pro : Read max = 550 MB/s (Raid 0 ~ 800 MB/s

Think about a MB with a M.2 Slot and Samsung 960 pro : read max = 3200 MB/s

 

If you don´t want to use the Display PC for extensive Workstation-Requirements like Rendering-Station, CAD this is wasted money!

MB with Z170 (with 4 x 16 lanes PCIe, must be simultaneously usable for the capture cards) , I7 7500, 16 - 32 Gb and Samsung 960pro will do. An alternative would be an Intel Workstation-CPU like the Xeon E5 v3 with 32Gb, but that should be the maximum.

 

BR Thomas 

[Thomas Leong]

Tom T. I'm pretty sure you are incorrect in saying "WO is a 32 bit solution so it can´t use more then 2 Gb Ram and one core.".

 

Should be 'cannot use more than 4GB', and Watchout does use multi-cores and hyperthreading when playing back, as many as one has. I have observed that with Windows' Resource Monitor running under the Display PC.

[edgar pulido]

Hi Mr. Leong,

 

Meaning, there is nothing wrong with my planned setup? Im thinking of making my machine a future proof one.  I read in one of the thread that the excess ram aside from 4gb that watchout can utilize is that the capture cards and other components will benefit from that. Is this correct?

 

Thanks

[TomT]

@ Thomas Leong

are you sure WO is using the cores, not the video-player (FFmeg or Quicktime)?

When playing video the player can use a core for each video which is rendered, but I´m quite sure WO itself cannot use more than one core.

 

But I might be wrong,.....

 

BR Thomas

[jfk]

@ Thomas Leong

are you sure WO is using the cores, not the video-player (FFmeg or Quicktime)?

When playing video the player can use a core for each video which is rendered, but I´m quite sure WO itself cannot use more than one core.

 

But I might be wrong,.....

 

BR Thomas

WATCHOUT is most definitely multi-threaded.

Most of the video decoders are multi-threaded as well,

mpeg2, mpeg4/h.264, HAP (also depends on encoding), Pro-Res, animation codec

are all definitely multi-threaded decoders.

[Thomas Leong]

Meaning, there is nothing wrong with my planned setup? Im thinking of making my machine a future proof one.  I read in one of the thread that the excess ram aside from 4gb that watchout can utilize is that the capture cards and other components will benefit from that. Is this correct?

 

TomT is quite correct in that your setup is way overkill for a Display PC. Good for a Production PC if you also intend to use other applications like After Effects, 3D programs, etc and render from it. But for Watchout Display PC, it is over the top.

 

For a Display PC:

- a single high end cpu from the i7 range will do versus a dual-cpu Xeon. No extra benefits from the dual cpu Xeon. In fact, I heard a dual cpu setup is not supported by Windows 7 -10, and you need Windows Server instead.

 

-  As TomT has pointed out, The Z170 series are good performers. I have the older versions (Z87 and Z97) and have no complains. The money saved allows a new upgrade system as Moore's Law progresses, i.e. there is really no real future proof system. All components will change, for the better.

 

- for RAM, a minimum of 8GB (dual channel means 4GB per RAM slot. Think 2GB RAM sticks do not exist especially for DDR4). If you have an Intel X99 with LGA2011-3 motherboard, a quad-channel RAM setup is optimum, so 4 sticks of DDR4 each at 4GB = 16GB RAM. Next step up is 32GB with 8GB RAM sticks. Future proofing for when the Display PC may be used for other applications, then 4x16GB sticks = 64GB (you must be rich!)

 

-  I would not RAID the SSDs. Not a problem with Samsung 850 Pro but potential future problems can arise from using the motherboard RAID controllers. In fact, this is not true hardware-RAID but a pesudo-RAID, and those motherboard Intel RAID controllers are not 101% reliable. If RAID is an absolute must, use a 3rd-party RAID Controller card instead (takes up one PCIe slot) but they are not cheap. A far better, faster and more reliable performance, as TomT said, is the Samsung 960 Pro M.2. However, the dual-cpu motherboards do not have a slot for M.2 so you would need a PCIe 3.0x4 Adapter card for an M.2. Some of the high end ASUS motherboard packages come supplied with such an adapter card.

So strongly advise you to use a Samsung 850 Pro SSD for the Operating System, and a Samsung 960 Pro M.2 for Watchout's Watchpoint for the fast playback/capability and reliability. If you need more storage for old shows/projects, a 1TB Samsung 960 EVO SSD should do fine.

 

- As for graphics cards, the AMD Firepro WX series is out. But there is no WX8100 yet. Not sure if that is coming. Wait if you can. Else the W8100 is a good choice.

 

Thomas

 

Edit:

Forgot to add that when Capture is enabled, the power usage increases, so since you intend 2 Capture cards, ensure your psu is sufficient. Minimum 750w psu is recommended for the AMD Firepro W8100, so with the 2 capture requirements when in use, suggest you have a min 1200w psu which should allow you some overhead safety margin.

[edgar pulido]

@thomasleong thank you for the detailed response. Now I have a clearer picture.

[cowboyclint]

Since this is a good/great thread, here is my question: I just did a build and put my OS on a Toshiba OCZ RD400A 128Gb drive like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820228165

Then I put 2 SSDs in Motherboard RAID. I get the not true RAID idea.

From what you are saying here, I should put the OS on one of the SSDs, no RAID, and put the Watchout Drive on the M2 drive. Why?

Can you elaborate for me and the rest of the class?

[jfk]

Since this is a good/great thread, here is my question: I just did a build and put my OS on a Toshiba OCZ RD400A 128Gb drive like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820228165

 

OK, that links to a 1 Tb drive, and it is a fast drive at that.

Toshiba OCZ RD400A M.2 2280 + AIC 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x 4 MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) RVD400-22280-1TB-A

 

Then I put 2 SSDs in Motherboard RAID. I get the not true RAID idea.

From what you are saying here, I should put the OS on one of the SSDs, no RAID, and put the Watchout Drive on the M2 drive.

 

Yes

 

Why?

 

Throughput should be optimized for the WATCHOUT media drive.

 

Look at the Max Sequential Read speed for the M.2 SSD - Up to 2600 MBps

 

I am guessing the motherboard RAID controller

connects to the two SSDs via a SATA3 connection for each?

SATA3 interface tops out at 650 MBps

(and the best SATA3 SSDs are Max Sequential Read - Up to 550 MBps).

So even if you added a hardware RAID controller,

it would still be at best half the throughput of the M.2 drive,

likely much less with the motherboard controller.

 

 

 

 

[Lloyd Stewart]

Wow!  What a wealth of info in this thread!  I hope my post doesn't count as a thread hijacking, but since the original asker's question seems to be answered, and the thread is heading in a certain direction, may I request a little similar info? 

 

I've been out of the game for a while, but now have a show coming soon and need to rebuild computers. So I was scouring the forum for recommendations. (still need to upgrade Watchout as well)

 

But there seems to be a pretty good sale at a site I'm looking at (think "the most common fresh breakfast food") and I'm starting with the graphics card and the AMD WX 7100 looked most inviting at $548.99. 

So Thomas Leong, might I ask what you meant when you said, "As for graphics cards, the AMD Firepro WX series is out?"  Does that mean that they are out, as in "now available for purchase"?  Or does it mean that they are "out" as in "something that doesn't work with Watchout"? Or perhaps something else?  Your posts, by the way, are wonderful!  I was just a little unsure about that one comment.

Here's what I'm seriously considering so far for my display computer.  Yeah, I know judging a prospective system gets old, but if there is someone who wouldn't mind taking a look to see if something is off, I'd sure appreciate it!  (many items gleaned from Thomas' and jfk's posts)

 

1. AMD WX 7100 graphics card

 

2. ASRock X99 Motherboard, Extreme 4, LGA 2011-v.3  

  

(Originally, I had chosen the Asus Z270-A LGA 1151 motherboard.  But upon doing a little more research, I came to realize that more cores, available with the X99 platform, was more significant than the newest chipset.  However, if one can wait, the new X299 chipset/motherboard and processors are likely to be released some time in the first half of 2017. Also, a word of warning regarding this Z270 motherboard: These new X270 (sometimes called KabyLake) motherboards are not supported by Windows 7!!!

 

3. Intel Core i7-6800k 15M Broadwell-E 6-core 3.4 GHz LGA2011-v3 Processor

 

(Originally I had chosen the Intel i7-7700k 4 core LGA 1151 processor.  But upon doing a little more research, I came to realize that more cores, available with the X99 platform, was more significant than the newest processor and chipset.  However, if one can wait, the new X299 processors and motherboards are likely to be released some time in the latter half of 2017    Also, a word of warning: The new Intel i7-7700k processor (sometimes called KabyLake) is not supported by Windows 7!!!)

 

4. Samsung 960 Pro M.2 2280 PCI-Express 3.0 x4 500G SSD MZ-V6E500BW (changed from EVO after reading Tom's advice below)

 

5. Samsung 850 Pro SATA3, 3-D Vertical Internal SSD, MZ-7KE256BW (added after reading Thomas advice below)

 

 

6. Storm Scout 2 Advanced case (I like that handle!)

 

7. FSP Group Aurum PT Series 1200w ATX 12V modular Power Supply

 

8. G.Skill Ripjaws V Series Memory 16GB (2x8GB) 288-pin DDR4 2400 SDRAM (PC4 19200), Model F4-2400C15D-16GVR

 

9. Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler

[Thomas Leong]

Llyod,

 

With the word 'out', I meant 'now available for purchase'. As for compatibility with Watchout, untested by me...but I would not doubt its compatibility being the successor to the W7100.

 

Your 4th item is not clear -

4. SAMSUNG 960 EVO 500GB M.2 2280 PCI-Express 3.0 x4 500G SSD MZ-V6E500BW with USB 3.0 HUB

 

Firstly, where in a SSD or M.2 does the 'USB 3.0 Hub' come from?

If you meant -

Samsung 960 EVO 500GB SSD for the Operating System, that is fine. Dataton does recommend that one keeps the Operating System on a physically separate device to Watchpoint. Personally, I have not seen nor tested any difference whether one does so or not. All I have observed is that playing media from Watchpoint does incur quite a bit of resource overhead versus playing the same media from a normal software-based media player like Windows Media Player, vlc, or Quicktime. So it is best to keep to recommendations from Dataton (manufacturer knows best).

 

And if you meant -

Samsung M.2 2280 PCI-Express 3.0 x4 500G SSD MZ-V6E500BW for Watchpoint, which is a Samsung 960 EVO M.2, then I suggest you opt for the 960 Pro instead of the EVO. More expensive, yes. But the Pro version uses MLC Nand whereas the EVO models use the cheaper TLC nand. Performance consistency, and duration are better with MLC nand, thereby the main cause of the price difference.

 

As for the power supply, if you do not intend to have capture cards in the Display PC, 1200w is, in my opinion, overkill. A 650-850w psu will be more than enough if only one capture card is intended in the future. Re-direct the savings toward the 960 Pro M.2.

 

Thomas

[Lloyd Stewart]

12/29/16

 

Hi again Thomas,

 

i wanted to thank you so much for your input!  Also wanted to clear up some stuff.

 

1. You said, "Firstly, where in a SSD or M.2 does the 'USB 3.0 Hub' come from?"    Well, I shouldn't have included that in the description (I was just copying and pasting the Newegg description).  The "3.0 Hub" was simply something that Newegg threw in if you bought that particular M.2 drive.  Took me a while to figure that out myself.

 

2. But thanks to your advice, I bought the Samsung 850 Pro 250 SSD for the OS.  Initially I thought, "Why not buy two M.2 drives", but then I realized that there was only one slot for one M.2 drive on that particular Asus Z170-A motherboard and also realized that there would likely be little benefit for the OS to be on an M.2 drive anyway.

 

3. But then I did try to buy a 500 GB Samsung 960 Pro M.2 drive to use exclusively for Watchout, but everyone is currently sold out with the exception of some questionable sources who have jacked their prices due to the demand.  Some of those sources, even some selling on Newegg, don't seem very reliable either.  I checked ResellerRatings and found a ton of complaints for at least one of those resellers.  So, I'll wait as long as I can, hoping Samsung will release more of those 500GB 960 Pro M.2 drives.  

 

I did read about the older 950 Pro M.2 drives and it seems there may be problems with throttling under heavy loads.  See here, where it says,

 

"Overall, the Samsung 960 Pro is an excellent improvement over the 950 Pro. Not only is the raw performance of the drive better, but Samsung has greatly improved how long the drive can handle heavy loads before throttling. It is still certainly possible to cause the drive to throttle eventually, but it takes long enough to do so that the vast majority of users would never encounter it."

 

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-960-Pro-vs-950-Pro-Performance-Thermal-Throttling-868/

 

4. I did stick with the 1200 watt power supply, not knowing what demands the WX7100 graphics card and other capture cards that I sometimes use might put on the power.  I figured, "What can it hurt, and there happened to be a sale and rebate reducing the price to about the same as the 1000 watt.  My experience with Watchout is that the moment one says that he/she will never need/use something, it's not a week later before you hit on an idea that requires what you thought you'd never need.

 

Anyway, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge.  I just wanted you to see that your advice wasn't wasted, but was duly acted upon.  And if I've erred in my thinking on anything, please feel free to correct me.

 

See ya!

 

Lloyd