hap Problem with HAP reproduction

[Carlo]

Hi, I'm having a lot of problem with hap reproduction.

the system I'm using is:
Intel i7 11k processor 8 core
Msi z590 pro
512gb pcie Samsung 970 for os
2tb pcie Samsung 970 for WO
32gb Corsair 3600rpm ddr4 ram
Corsair fully mod 750w gold power supply
AMD pro wx 9100 16gb graphic card

I'm using 6 out in almost each server, but in some way there are something strange because the file that works best right now is a prores 422.

I've already read that the driver i should use are the 17Q4 but with those driver windows just crash and start with a green screen Without the ability to do anything else.

Right now I'm trying the new driver but it doesen't work.

It happend with HAP, HAPQ
In almost the same way.
the resolution of the file are multiply of 4 (Since I've read somewhere that sometimes also that can be an issue.)

I really have no more idea on what i can do Also because prores is much more heavier in reproduction but it works fine with a 11000px x 1080px file.

Someone have any ideas?

Thank you

[jfk]

Sounds like what happens if you install VLC on the computer,

Anyway, WATCHOUT version? Is it happening on Production (watchmaker) or Display (watchpoint)?  Do the videos play with color issues? Same on both watchmaker and watchpoint? Please describe the actual problem in useful detail.

[Carlo]

It the last release, 6.7.2

it happens on the display computer and there are no color issue.
The video are just jerky in playback. If i'm try to watch the video, on the same server with a player like jonkyo player it works fine. 
It's something that happens constantly, during all of the duration of the media file.

I've encoded the files without audio and the server run windows 10 with all of the tweaking list done and checked.

[jfk]

1 hour ago, Carlo said:

…  prores is much more heavier in reproduction but it works fine with a 11000px x 1080px file. …

That is too big for a default single chunk HAP, if is encoded with one chunk what you describe is expected. How many chunks are you using? Frame rate factors into the chunk requirement as well, what is the frame rate? For 11,000 x 1080 @ 60p I would try six chunks.

[Carlo]

I've the same problem with smaller file,

I've tried with 2, 4 and 8 Chunks
the framerate is 30p

and i never reach a good playback. Also because I've tried in a 8 year older build and it works without problems.

[jfk]

 

On 3/8/2023 at 11:26 AM, Carlo said:

... i never reach a good playback. Also because I've tried in a 8 year older build and it works without problems.

So that would appear to rule out WATCHOUT and the movie file. With those items verified, and the same movie specs play smoothly in ProRes but not in HAP, that truly is unusual.  Hard to guess where your build has gone awry. I have never heard of the gpu driver affecting smooth playback, color issues yes, but not smooth playback issues. I defer to those who build PC servers ... 

[RBeddig]

Well, I normally don't argue with jfk, but especially with HAP and AMD graphic cards we have seen those issues since 2018.

The reason seems to be that AMD introduced some sort of energy saving mechanism in their drivers, throttling the performance down when the rest of the computer is almost idle. H264 and ProRes use the CPU for rendering and they consume quite a lot of CPU power while playing HAP files can get unnoticed by the CPU. Playing a HAP fullHD@60fps leads to some 2% CPU use on our systems.

To test this theory, you could play your HAP file and add some ProRes or H264 file behind your HAP. This will make the CPU busy and should hinder the graphic card driver in throttling down.

Since using the old AMD driver didn't help you, you might investigate AMD drivers a bit more. I think I remember that AMD at some point brought out a separate tool to influence the energy settings of the driver but my memory could as well be wrong here.

[jfk]

1 hour ago, RBeddig said:

Well, I normally don't argue with jfk, but especially with HAP and AMD graphic cards we have seen those issues since 2018.

The reason seems to be that AMD introduced some sort of energy saving mechanism in their drivers, throttling the performance down when the rest of the computer is almost idle. H264 and ProRes use the CPU for rendering and they consume quite a lot of CPU power while playing HAP files can get unnoticed by the CPU. Playing a HAP fullHD@60fps leads to some 2% CPU use on our systems.

To test this theory, you could play your HAP file and add some ProRes or H264 file behind your HAP. This will make the CPU busy and should hinder the graphic card driver in throttling down.

Since using the old AMD driver didn't help you, you might investigate AMD drivers a bit more. I think I remember that AMD at some point brought out a separate tool to influence the energy settings of the driver but my memory could as well be wrong here.

I very much appreciate the input. Was not aware of the AMD energy saving concern. Wouldn’t that be variable rather than all the time?

[Carlo]

On 3/10/2023 at 5:51 PM, RBeddig said:

Well, I normally don't argue with jfk, but especially with HAP and AMD graphic cards we have seen those issues since 2018.

The reason seems to be that AMD introduced some sort of energy saving mechanism in their drivers, throttling the performance down when the rest of the computer is almost idle. H264 and ProRes use the CPU for rendering and they consume quite a lot of CPU power while playing HAP files can get unnoticed by the CPU. Playing a HAP fullHD@60fps leads to some 2% CPU use on our systems.

To test this theory, you could play your HAP file and add some ProRes or H264 file behind your HAP. This will make the CPU busy and should hinder the graphic card driver in throttling down.

Since using the old AMD driver didn't help you, you might investigate AMD drivers a bit more. I think I remember that AMD at some point brought out a separate tool to influence the energy settings of the driver but my memory could as well be wrong here.

Thank you for this answer, this is something I didn't know, most of the build I've used so far were made with nvidia card, and i never had this kind of problem.

Sadly I can't check out this solution right now, because I'm abrod, but as soon i can check this out I'm goingo to came back to you.

Thank you again for the answers!

[jorgitool]

On 3/13/2023 at 6:23 PM, Carlo said:

Thank you for this answer, this is something I didn't know, most of the build I've used so far were made with nvidia card, and i never had this kind of problem.

Sadly I can't check out this solution right now, because I'm abrod, but as soon i can check this out I'm goingo to came back to you.

Thank you again for the answers!

win10-radeon-pro-software-enterprise-20.q3-aug12

 

Try this one.

[Carlo]

On 3/10/2023 at 5:51 PM, RBeddig said:

Well, I normally don't argue with jfk, but especially with HAP and AMD graphic cards we have seen those issues since 2018.

The reason seems to be that AMD introduced some sort of energy saving mechanism in their drivers, throttling the performance down when the rest of the computer is almost idle. H264 and ProRes use the CPU for rendering and they consume quite a lot of CPU power while playing HAP files can get unnoticed by the CPU. Playing a HAP fullHD@60fps leads to some 2% CPU use on our systems.

To test this theory, you could play your HAP file and add some ProRes or H264 file behind your HAP. This will make the CPU busy and should hinder the graphic card driver in throttling down.

Since using the old AMD driver didn't help you, you might investigate AMD drivers a bit more. I think I remember that AMD at some point brought out a separate tool to influence the energy settings of the driver but my memory could as well be wrong here.

So... after all of this months I've been able to do some remote assistance on those servers and here is what I've found.

I was able to run everything smoothly by adding a prores movie under everything at 0% opacity.
I've tried any possible way I've found but I wasn't able to find a way to disable this "DEEP SLEEP STATES".
I've found a tool, like "MORE POWER TOOL" that should do also this for lot of radeon card but sadly wasn't compatible with VEGA10 (like the WX9100).

 

On 3/10/2023 at 7:51 PM, jfk said:

I very much appreciate the input. Was not aware of the AMD energy saving concern. Wouldn’t that be variable rather than all the time?

It is variable in fact. But for me in a wrong way... the strangest thing I had noticed while I was there, was the fact that the server with the smallest file and distortion was the one with most of the problems... So In fact it is variable, but not really in a great way.
Also even if you try to force the minimum power and clock speed in the preference of the drivers this setting in any case override everything, and there is no safe way to disable it (or at least I didn't find one) 

 

On 4/4/2023 at 2:23 PM, jorgitool said:

win10-radeon-pro-software-enterprise-20.q3-aug12

 

Try this one.

Since I'm doing remote assistance now I do not trust to made some intervention of this entity.
I've got a really lot of problem to find a version of drivers that worked in that build.

 

The only thing I'm sure is that I will NEVER suggest another build with Radeon card.
A month back I build new server with a Nvidia quadro RTX A4000 card and I haven't had a single problem.

Thank you everybody for the helps!
I will post again if I discover something new.