jfk
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Posts posted by jfk
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Built in FrameLock
On the other hand, 2 Gb memory for six 4k outputs seems a bit meager.
I have never seen that locking MiniDisplayPort connector before, definately looks like an improvement.
locking Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort adaptor
graphics card locking Mini DisplayPort connections
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Hello all,
I am programming a show in watchout right now, a few days ago I had a file corrupt and lost a great deal of work; since then I have been saving a copy of the file as a different name each day to prevent content from being lost.
I have noticed however that if I ever try and load one of the show files that was saved as a "Copy as" file, it is unable to find a rather large chunk of the media in the show, but it is able to find somethings.
Perfectly normal when you put the copy in a different location than the original .watch file.
All of your relative media references will break, all your absolute media references will retain.
So yesterday I tried to simply rename the same watchout file, and I had a similar problem-it could find a great deal of the media but not all of it.
That makes no sense. Are you sure the errors did not exist in the file before you renamed it?
We did see something along these lines when a customer was putting the .watch file and media files
in the 'Shows' folder created by WATCHOUT. Do not put anything into the Shows folders created by WATCHOUT,
make your own folder and call it anything else (Customer shows, my shows, etc.)
What is the best way to save the watchout file under a different name like "Watchout Show X Final"?
You could use 'File - Save a Copy As' and place it in the same location as the original and
it should perform exactly the same as it regards to media links,
granted it will transfer new copies of all media to new a new show folder on the displays.
I read somewhere else on the forum that whenever you save a copy as, it wants to be in its own folder, with nothing else but the folder of its cache files.
You are mixing up two different functions on the File menu - 'Save a Copy As ...' and 'Consolidate To ...'
When you use 'Consolidate To' you target an empty folder,
'Save a Copy As' can go anywhere, but don't expect it to work properly from any location other than the orignal .watch file location.
People who save to alternate folders move the file to the correct location before attempting to open it.
'Save a Copy As' is good for back up a .watch file
'Consolidate To' is good for moving a show and all its media to a new location.
'Consolidate To' copies all media and translates all media links so that they are portable and will not break when opened in a new locaiton.
'Save a Copy As' makes no changes to the media links, they are preserved as in the original.
I read this after creating three different copies of a very large show, so I then created folders with the same name as the files, and put the correlating files in these folders. I have not had time to open them since doing this, does this seem like it will solve my problem?
Probably not.
Or do the folders need to exist before you save the copy as?
No. And the file save dialogs in 'Consolidate To' allow you to create a new empty folder as part of the process.
And even with that, is there a way to change the name of your showfile, without it taking thirty minutes to load when you open next,
No.
and keep all of it's media properly linked?
That should be no problem if the above is followed.
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time,
Dylan.
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Sean,
Won't using interlaced signals and WO having to deinterlace these cause you too much picture delay?
Additional delay compared to progressive, yes.
'Too much' is a personal judgement.
ymmv
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I do not believe replacing the camera will change anything.
I see you are using interlaced signal inputs. Those have to be de-interlaced on the fly
and I am pretty sure that task is performed by the cpu.
Likely your cpu / motherboard / memory subsystem is hitting its threshold deinterlacing three streams.
You will likely need to upgrade your computing power to achieve four without stuttering.
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.... Will gotoControlCue "TOD"$0D play the TOD task?
NO. It will go to a control cue in the main timeline named "TOD" and sit there.
If that control cue does not exist on the main timeline, it will do nothing.
or do I need to open TOD task and use the frist cue name to trigger that time line.
If you want to play an auxiliary timeline named "TOD", you would send
run "TOD"$0D
If you want to jump to a control cue in an auxiliary timeline,
you need to include the optional parameter 'timeline name'.
So to jump to a control cue named "example 1" in an auxiliary timeline named "TOD", you would send
gotoControlCue "Example 1" "TOD"$0D
an then if you wanted it to run from there, you would send a second command,run "TOD"$0D
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Almost got it right. Needs to be
gotoControlCue "TOD"$0D
How is your output device setup for the second production computer?
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And specifically, my post #7 under the topic - Remote Controlling with Watchout Problems is a "how to" for setting up and controlling the dowser of Panasonic projectors using the PJlink protocol.
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... I see many people getting Fire Pros (w9000), whereas I remember WO requiring only very basic graphic cards as the processing was performed on CPU rather than GPU,
That is not necessarily correct. Depends a lot on content and programming. The GPU does a lot of the work.
reference: Mechanics of WATCHOUT
is there an advantage in using a much more expensive w9000 card?
Yes there is.
When using 2 mini-displayport to MST hubs are there frame locking issues between outputs/hubs, different latency between the two hubs or any timming issue
No synch issues with two MST hubs driving six outputs that we have observed in our testing.
We have been testing with a FirePro W7000, Windows 7 SP1 64 bit, WATCHOUT 5.5.1
and another system with a FirePro W8100, Windows 8.1 64 bit and WATCHOUT 5.5.2b
The W7000 is a bit underpowered for six outputs and there is a noticeable degradation in image quality driving six.
The W8100 system does not show this degradation, although under prolonged testing,
it appears to be overheating.
BTW We recently received a new model of MST Hubs (StarTech),
and this version is passing durability testing so far (Club 3D failed durability testing).
Will update again when the testing is completed.
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We have been using the ATi FirePro 9100 for six outputs on over a dozen systems now and it works well.
As for those tempted to use the FirePro W600, beware, the GPU is a bit weak for WATCHOUT.
The W600 is targeted at home video applications, not so much for DirectX 3D accelerated apps.
If all you are doing is video playback and very little with tween tracks, no masking, no keying, etc.
you might get away with the W600. That implies you have control of the content and its programming.
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Quick way to the head of a timeline is three keystrokes -
, 0, 0 -
FYI directions on how to use WATCHOUT Remote can be found in chapter 2 of
WATCHMan User's Guide.pdf, archived in the WATCHOUT Systems Manager download.
The screen layouts on iOS may be slightly different, but the function is pretty much the same.
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... DMX signals trigger auxiliary timelines to synchronize video sound and light. ...
From a GrandMA? Why and the world would you not use MIDI Show Control for that?
MSC is a cue based protocol, and triggering auxiliary timelines is cue based.
DMX is a level based protocol, makes little sense as it relates to cues.
I guarantee you MSC would be far more reliable.
DMX input was meant for live tweens, not triggering timelines.
Obviously you can make it work, but I would not be surprised by strange behavuor with such a hack.
Nor would I spend time trying to track down anomalies with that method.
Using DMX to trigger timelines reminds me of an old adage,
'when all you have is a hammer, everything tends to look like a nail'
But with a GrandMA, you have more than just a hammer,
there are other useful tools in that toolbox, aka MSC.
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Hello. I have control WO Production via Artnet from GrandMA. When I make changes into the WO, Production ceases to receive some signals from GrandMA.
How are you determining that? What tween formula are you using it in?
After reboot WO Production software everything becomes OK.
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hi,
I have a project with 4 screens with 4k resolution each.
is wo can output this resolution ?
Yes. If you had searched this forum you would have found examples of that.
reference: 4K Video Playback , Supported 4k / High resolution video cards - Single Output
1 computer will do this or I need more then 1?
You would be best served with 2 powerful computers for that task.
what is the computer spec and a preferred graphic card for this ?
Show Sage can provide computers tested and certified to run 4k movies to 4k outputs.
If you plan to build your own, start with a i7 six-core on a motherboard that supports quad channel memory
and a graphics card that is specified to provide 4k output
(AMD FirePro cards with four digit model designations, aka FirePro 7100, etc.) are a good choice.
You will need to do your homework and test to confirm a system that can handle the task.
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hi guys
im working on an installation that i need to change files on the cluster manually..
That is not permitted and is not going to work unless you use dynamic image server to accomplish it.
i need to go to the path where the cluster saves the media and overwrite it with different files from outer custom app.
the files will be EXACTLY the same name and type.
It is not that simple.
the cluster is controlled from an automation system so restarting/reloading the show each time i overwrite the files is not a problem..
the thing is that when i go to - C:\program files\dataton\watchout 5\ i cant see the "shows" folder,
instead this folder is located in - C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\Dataton\WATCHOUT 5\Shows..
my first question is: did the path for the "shows" folder was change?
No. Sounds like you have two copies of watchpoint installed in different locaitons. Also not a good idea.
Either that or you did not follow the first recommendation when preparing a display and UAC is not disabled.
because i know it was in the first path i mentioned all these years..
anyway i tested and overwritten a media file from the 2nd path, reload watchpoint and the "old" file was still shown on screen, which is very weird
not weird - expected.
cause i couldnt find it anywhere on the cluster hard drive.
That is because still image files do not play back from the original file.
They play back from the cache that is created when WATCHOUT Production (or WATCHNET)
transfers the file to display.
Dynamic Image Server would provide the function you seek.
when i deleted the file completly from the cluster (just to see what happens) and reload the show the cluster reply with this error:
"Error 7 0 "No File Server Specified" but the "old" file was still on screen
so where is this file?? where the cluster takes it from if its not in the "shows" folder?
Comes from the cache folder, and you do not get to mess with that data.
the production used for uploading the show to the cluster is running win 8.1(yeah i know) if thats make any difference for my case..(the cluster is win 7)
Nope.
i know it might be a weird workaround but thats the case for that installation..
btw
this method works great "manipulating" the production computer if i restart watchout each time i overwrite the files manually, but thats not helping me cause were not gonna use a production there.
WATCHNET can provide the function as well.
any ideas?
very sorry for the long post
thx
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Thanks Jonas,
So if I connect 4 different live cameras to a BlackMagic Quad Capture Card, will I be able to place all 4 different live feeds to the output of the main Watchout display? My Director wants to see all 4 different camers on the screen at one time.
Yes, all four outputs can be displayed simultaneously on any and / or all displays connected to the computer containing the card.
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…in VJ world this little, rather promising, open source codec is making the rounds. Would there be any real benefits in implementing it in Watchout,
For all practical purposes WATCHOUT is ready to handle any user installed DirectShow codec.
Third parties seem to offer HAP DirectShow codecs.
If this is true, then installing them on your production and display PC
would provide HAP support in WATCHOUT.
Of course, you are then at the mercy of the third party supplier for support with that codec.
'
For example, seems a group called RenderHeads Limited offers what they describe as
FAST GPU FRIENDLY VIDEO CODEC FOR WINDOWS
and does anyone have any experience with it yet?
Not that I know of - you can be the first
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Yes, you're correct, it can do that, for one input, not two as the VisionSDI2 does. Per input, the cost is approx the same.
Will be hard to fit 4 of those in a chassie, though...which was the question at hand here.
Also, the DataPath driver is far less finicky than the BMD drivers.
i.e. DataPath is far more forgiving regarding signal settings than BMD,
resulting in higher success rates when setting it up.
It's preliminary tested, but 4K input from this card does not work yet with WATCHOUT, as of now.
We are looking into this, it should be possible.
Stay tuned.
/jonas
DeckLink 4K Extreme Technical SpecificationsHD Format Support
720p50, 720p59.94, 720p60, 1080PsF23.98, 1080p23.98, 1080PsF24, 1080p24, 1080PsF25, 1080p25, 1080PsF29.97, 1080p29.97, 1080PsF30, 1080p30, 1080i50, 1080p50, 1080i59.94, 1080p59.94, 1080i60, and 1080p60.
2K Format Support
2048 x 1556PsF23.98, 2048 x 1556PsF24, 2048 x 1556PsF25, 2048 x 1556p23.98, 2048 x 1556p24, 2048 x 1556p25 and 2048 x 1080p23.98, 2048 x 1080p24, 2048 x 1080p25.
4K Format Support
3840x2160p23.98, 3840x2160p24, 3840x2160p25, 3840x2160p29.97, 3840x2160p30, 4096x2160p23.98, 4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29.97, 4096 x 2160p30.
We have not tried the DeckLink 4k card,
but we have successfully used the DataPath DL-DVI card to capture
3940x2160@30p.
We use the Decklink Quad, but we do sometime experience some issues, regarding to switching inputs. Nothing that can't be solved, but it's only related to the BM configuration.
May also be related to WATCHOUT itself. That issue is the same for BMD and DataPath.
The workaround is to open the input once and keep it open.
reference: DataPath input freeze
So the question is, which solution is Datatons preferred, the Blackmagic, or the Datapath solution?
Cheers Christian
Dataton preferred would indicate Dataton takes some responsibility
for something completely out of its control.
Don't see them doing that.
Motherboard, driver configs, other options all interact to determine that success.
That responsibility lies with the hardware vendor.
That said, as a hardware vendor who does support these things,
hands down, I would choose DataPath over BlackMagic Design every time,
if budget is not a consideration.
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Hello,
We have two wacthpoint at two PC. they work in cluster established using a "file-based control" as described at Appendix E of the user´s guide. After that we use a computer control for runing the show.
It works fine mostly every day, but, as PC´s are switched on by wake-on lan, Sometimes cluster is not established and show goes wrong.
Is there any command or method, to obtain or know if cluster has being correctly established?
Yes. But if you have a control system to ask that question, why not use that system to load the show?
The load command establishes the cluster, and at that time, the response will indicate any issues.
for example, here is the response when one output was missing at load ...
load "myshow"
Busy "Establishing Cluster" "" 0
Error 4 -2146950355 "Address not found: WO2; Display \"Indoor06\" of Stage Tier \"Indoor\" of Stage"
Busy "Cluster Established" "" 0
Otherwise, getStatus should provide what you seek.
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Hey Guys , are you able to add more than one capture card?
Certainly. If you search this forum, you will find more than one thread on that.
My Director wants 4 live cameras... How would I do this?
Depends on the signal type.
For HD-SDI 720p / 1080i or lower resolutions, the most cost effective way is with a single BMD Decklink Quad.
For higher SDI resolutions, two DataPath VisionSDI2 would do the trick as well.
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Hello,
The midi is coming from a computer trough en edirol interface to my watchout production which has an roland cakewalk interface.A friend adapted the software so I can adapt all sending settings for the midi. Rising flank, falling flank, velocity and so on.But it simply won't react every time. Yesterday I had 3 fails on 5 tries. Then 10 good samples a d then again a lot of fails.I'm situated in Belgium and using the system for a quiz in a television show.Kind regards,Jesse DillenDo you have access to any method of monitoring the MIDI data? Midi-Ox or some such.
Edirol is not my favorite vendor, weirdness from their products would not surprise me in the least.
Toss in customized software and ....
Monitoring the MIDI channel may reveal something.
I have assisted with a few switch closure / MIDI Note systems that do not act like that.
Pushbuttons (simple switch closures) trigger shows (aux timelines).
Used MIDI Solutions F8 in multiple systems. (once you get it setup correctly, bulletproof)
some with a MOTU Fastlane USB and an some with an off brand simple MIDI-USB adaptor.
No anomalies.
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What is "internal AMD spoofing?
Since he is using a FirePro, I assume he means the new
EDID management in the Catalyst Control Center.
OP want to clear that up?
What is an "SVG Multi-viewer?Sierra Video Group Multi-viewer
Why is this used?
Like most guys who own them, it allows you to view multiple outputs on a single display.
Often used for in-house testing / production before connecting to the real displays on site.
It was other producers with the same idea who discovered
they are often not valid for synch evaluation. (using FirePro with s400 scanlock)
Just the same, that means the graphics card is connected to another processor,
not directly to a display. So for tech check-out, when display signal anomalies occur with such a setup,
it aways makes sense to keep it simple by isolating the problem.
First step in doing so is ...
Try to connect physical Displays to your outputs, same result?
/jonas0 -
Hello,
do you know how you will resolve this problem of compatibility with new integrated graphic processor and discrete graphic processor on laptops.
because all new laptop have this setup.
BR
Julien
As has been said above, this is a computer preparation issue.
Integrated graphic processor and discrete graphic processor on laptops is not all that new,
just becoming more mainstream.
Been running a production laptop with such a setup (Intel / nVidia) for three years with Win 7 and no issues at all.
Work with your hardware vendor to determine where your comptuer preparation is awry.
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Good morning everyone.
I am in the process of setting up a large system with 2 producer machines and 6 play back machines.
I am currently getting the message shown in the title on an intermittent basis.
It most likely disappeared because it crashed. If the display logo screen appears,
the watchdog has cleared the crash and reloaded watchout display.
Subsequent behavuor depends on mode (production or cluster)
First I will give you some info on the spec of the systems:
Producer PC Spec:
Windows 7 Pro 64bit
Intel Core i7-4770k 3.50 GHz
8GB RAM (Kingston Hyper X DDR3-1600 CL9 2x4GB)
Samsung 120GB SSD for both System and Watchout Producer
ASUS H87M-Pro Motherboard
ASUS NVIDEA GeForce GT640 2GB
Display PC Spec:
Windows 7 Pro 64bit
Intel Core i7-4770k 3.50 GHz
8GB RAM (Kingston Hyper X DDR3-1600 CL9 2x4GB)
Samsung 120GB SSD for System
Samsung 250GB SSD for Watchout
ASUS Z97M-Plus Motherboard
AMD FirePro W7000 Graphics
All PC's have had the 2.1 Watchout tweaks applied (only issue is that Windows won't let me change network connection to a Work network).
Delete it and make a new one.
The intention is that the display PC's can be used for x4 1920x1080 playback of mp4 video.
That sounds really optimistic for that hardware.
Movies are progressive or interlaced? Frame rate matters too.
Encoding will play a role on success.
Right now I have internal AMD spoofing applied and am viewing the playback through an SVG Multi-viewer (no physical displays are connected to the DVI cables.
If you are not seeing a logo screen the EDID signal may be causing issues.
You would not be the first to experience anomalies with multi-viewers.
Don't trust the synch you see on those things either,
they have been known to insert different delays on different inputs.
What is happening is I get playback of video (20 second loop) for a varying amount of time. After a number of loops (again this varies) the outputs just show black but the playhead is still moving. After a few more seconds I get the message:
From Display "Display Number" of Stage Tier "Base" of Stage, Date and Time
Network error; Display Computer: Disappeared.
Other times I get the message Display Computer Disconnected.
OK, what happens on the display after this message is seen?
Jim
The switch I am using is a HP 2530G 24 Port Switch (I have an unmanaged switch arriving today to test too).
Any ideas what is causing this show stopping problem?
Is it Network? Media? EDID? Something in Windows?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Many thanks,
Rob
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Tasks Disappear
in WATCHOUT FORUM
Posted
Is this simply a matter of opening the Window Menu and selecting Task to make the Task Window reappear?
Or are you saying that auxiliary timelines are disappearing from the Task window?