jfk
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Posts posted by jfk
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I can answer one ...
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3. Are ACTIVE mini DP-DVI Adapters required (as stated for Watchpax I; I can't find detail blurb for Watchpax II)
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No
original WATCHPAX = active required
dual output WATCHPAX = passive is ok (quad-core CPU, dual-output, USB 3.0 support))
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This is sort of covered in the WATCHOUT academy cookbook: Photo with iPad/iPhone
Possibly you can extrapolate from that and use it as a baseline for questions.
i.e. the sections of web server communication with Dynamic Image Server might be helpful
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... So my questions are:
1. In general, is this reasonable, or have I, as usual, strayed far off base again?
it is reasonable, albeit formidable - not for neophytes.
2. Is there a limit to auxiliary time lines?
No, not in the WATCHOUT software.
There are practical hardware limits on how many that can concurrently be active,
to some extent you will need to manually manage that.
Response time is affected by programming technique.
i.e. if you can wake up (pause) a subset of aux timelines prior to the selection,
the paused (and therefore cached) aux timelines can respond close to instantly.
The unused paused timelines need to be managed after the selection as well.
If you are sending a play to a stopped aux timeline,
it takes time to cache media before it is available, adjust accordingly.
3. Has anyone tried this who might suggest any pointers? Perhaps a better way?
Yes and NNinja's live tween suggesting is solid.
Also, consider incorporating conditional layer(s).
This can be useful in reducing the number of timelines,
while still tailoring responses on fixed for the run variables like gender, age group, day of week, etc, etc.
without creating a unique aux timeline for each one.
4. Does the use of auxiliary time lines seem like a reasonable way for a video character to respond? (Confession: I've never needed to use auxiliary timelines
Yes. This is an advanced technique and requires the wo programmer to manage resources
so you don't bog it down over the run.
or even Midi so all I know about them is what I've read in the manual and on the forum)
You probably would not use MIDI for this type of thing,
you can do anything MIDI can (and much more) with IP.
If you are going to the trouble to create the custom "digital glue"
to interface such a device, might as well use IP for easier access to the full feature set.
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Also, tell us about the display signal path.
Yes, I know, it has all the symptoms of a software / computer issue.
Yet when we observed events that would fit your description,
it worked out to be !*%& HDMI connections.
Our signal path was graphics card, MDP->HDMI 1.4a active adaptor, 1m 4k rated HDMI cable, 4k display
Granted we were driving HDMI at 3840x2160@30p.
Just the same, we were at a trade show exhibiting WATCHOUT
with a pretty solid brain trust on hand.
What to everyone appeared to be a software instability,
and make no mistakes, watchpoint was locking up
and the display never stopped showing an image.
Yet in fact this was a mechanical, display chain hardware triggered event.
Thanks to Fredrik Svahnberg for identifying this one.
Solution was to strain relief and tape all display connections.
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Hi to all, is there a perfomance issue if I use 2 pc to output 8 display. I am using it for dome projection of 14mx14m. the height is 7.2meters
the pc specification is
I7 4770K
AMD radeon HD 7990
16GB ddr 3 ram
regards
wilmer
Depends a lot on the movie pixel size, quantity and encoding.
Suffice is to say a quad-core gpu is very close or possibly past that threshold.
With a hi-speed SSD, it will likely need to be a best case scenario
to get four concurrent 1080p30 mpeg2 to run smoothly on that setup.
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Jim, thanks for more clearly explaning sync variation. In weighing Radeon options vs FirePro for future systems, is screen geometry processed on the CPU or by the video card?
Yes, geometry mostly adds to the video card (GPU) load.
Are there other parts of the workflow besides 3D tweens that are offloaded to the GPU? I suppose there's also a question, perhaps not objectively answerable, of how far do you need to go with 3D processing before you start stressing game orienteted consumer cards?
Jim
Hard to quantify that, suffice is to say, with the higher end gaming GPUs, we have never seen it bump the threshold.
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@JFK
That is the limit of the single output of the graphic board.
We are discussing about video content size.
Yes I know that, reread Mike's original comment.
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Videos of up to 4096 pixels in width may play without pre-splitting (assuming adequate hardware, of course).
Beyond that, you must pre-split due to hardware (graphics card) limitations. ...
Is the gpu capability actually hard a limit on any movie resolution,
or is it a recomendation on sizing pre-split movies?
Up to 4096 in width.
And height?
Up to 2160 or more?
In any case, if the 4096 is a graphics card limitation,
it might make sense to examine the specs of the graphics card you are using,
since it appears that is the source of the resolution limitation. i.e. YMMV
For example, with a four output AMD FirePro W7000 graphics card ....
AMD FirePro™ W7000 Graphics> ...
Memory
- Size/Type: 4GB GDDR5
- Interface: 256-bit
- Bandwidth: 154GB
Compute Performance
- 2.4 TFLOPs single precision and 152 GFLOPs double precision floating point performance
Display Outputs
- DisplayPort: Four standard
- Max DisplayPort 1.2 Resolution: 4096x2160
- Max DisplayPort 1.1 Resolution: 2560x1600
...
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and yes, WATCHOUT 5 does narrow the possibilities - thanks
Resolutions are generally 1920x1080, but sized down the designer thought we were using HD projectors. I am outputting 1024x768. File type is mostly jpg some PNG, and yes some of the images have transparency.
If some of your .png files are disappearing,
you might want to try setting the file's Transparency specifically
instead of the default Auto Detect.
reference page 36, Chapter 3, Media in the WATCHOUT 5 User Guide
This is done by changes to the the Transparency setting in Image Specifications,
found in the media window, select the image file and open the Image dialog.
This has been known to fix some issues of disappearing images before.
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I'd like a way to change how Stereo wav tracks get mapped across multiple outputs.
For example, sometimes clients deliver 5.1 as three stereo tracks wav files, and I would to make the second file playback out discrete outputs 2 and 3, and the third play out of discrete outputs 4 and 5. Then the first one would default to 0 and 1. Sometimes you don't have the time to create the proper file out of what you get handed.
This could be adjustable though a tween track, or the advanced tab of the inspector window.
Also, sometimes they hand you a single track that they want you to replace. Or they ask you to make one track slightly quieter or louder. So discrete volume control of specific audio tracks through tweens would also be nice, rather then general volume.
This comes up and lot on cooperate events.
Alex
You are talking about resources provided by Windows,
and Widnows WDM audio support does not provide for the remapping of outputs.
A simple workaround is to remap them in the .wav file headers.
This will accomplish what you desire, albeit not as elegant as you request.
Dataton has provided an as is / free of charge utility to accomplish this -> ChannelShifter.air
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Maximum capture inputs allowed, in WATCHOUT 5.5.1 is 12.
8 simultaneous captures is possible, as of now.
/jonas
Is the 8 simultaneous captures a hardware or software restriction?
i.e. if WATCHOUT allows 12, if the hardware can be found to do it,
won't it allow 12 simultaneous captures?
I am not asking if you have tested this, I am asking where the restriction lies?
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What version of WATCHOUT is used?
/jonas
x2
Big difference in the way large stills are handled between v4 (and earlier) and v5.
What is the resolutions of the missing images? file type? do the images have transparency?
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Passing this suggestion along from a freelance programmer.
With the advent of display computer names,
it would be helpful to automatically open the Network Window
on startup and show load like the Main Timeline, Stage, Media, (Task).
The Network Window size and position is remembered,
but you have to re-open it from the Windows menu.
Having it available without looking for it would provide a
gentle and useful reminder of this new capability.
---- along the topic of computer names ----
I would find it useful when a cluster name is used,
that it appear in the display dialog much the way the IP Prefix appears now.
It is just to obscure that the show's cluster name
only appears in File - Preferences - General
Will eliminate a fair amount of confusion.
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Ahh, yes, thanks for the reminder. Win 7 and Win XP interpret channel assignments differently.
i.e. even Microsoft can not agree with themselves on the "standard".
Quickest way to test is with a set of mono .wav files,
each assigned to a different channel using the Channel Assignment Tool.
Assign a mono .wav file to each of the eighteen output channels available in the tool above.
You will likely find eight that work.
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hi,
for information, we reached to play 6 tracks multiwav file directly at the outputs of a motherboard (ASUS P9X79).
but not the 8 tracks multiwav file.
Mathieu
Out of curiosity, did you attempt to remap channels 7 and 8 to higher channel numbers, i.e. 9 and 10, etc.
I have seen situations where the last two channels map differently and this has been a solution.
The hardware is still limited to eight channels of outputs, it is just some drivers interpret the higher channel numbers differently.
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Sounds interesting but I've just updated to 5.5.1 and I'm not seeing this change in behaviour. Nothing has changed here. What is unclear is, with 5.5.1, do I still need to put the -NoLogo command in the shortcuts? Or would this behaviour be the default behaviour without having to the change the shortcut parameters?
Thank you.
Yes, if you wish to suppress the logo, you must still use the command line -NoLogo option. Note, that swtich is case sensitive.
Default behavior is (and always has been) to display the logo screen whenever a show is not loaded and whenever an update is performed while not in standby.
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You need to rotate your vídeos in addition IMO.
x2
Try making your videos 1920 x 1080 (instead of 1080 x 1920) and then rotate them in watchout.
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Hi,
what would you think about this solution to play multiwav files:
Arvus Digital — HDMI-2A 8 channel AES/EBU Digital Audio Converter
could it work? or is it the same WDM drivers problem?
Thanks
Mathieu
It could work, it simply transfers the driver issue to an unknown third party.
i.e. if you can find a WDM driver that takes the WATCHOUT sound playback
and integrates the audio into the computer's HDMI video output,
then I suppose that box would take you the rest of the way.
Finding a stable driver to do that is still the key.
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Excellent. And what about parallelism?
WATCHOUT is multi-threaded.
If a display computer has a six-core CPU, can Watchpoint process, say, four tasks simultaneously?
And more.
Even though WATCHOUT is multi-threaded,
the heavy lifting is done by Microsoft DirectX, and its child processes.
Is there even any need for that level of computing with the way the program handles playback?
multi-core cpus come into play primarily when decoding movies.
The movie codec will impact how well those cores are utilized.
.wmv, and codecs installed by WATCHOUT are also multi-threaded (mpeg2, mpeg4, animation codec 32+ .mov).
Other QT .mov codecs on a PC, not so much
Lastly, assuming the program can run multiple threads in parallel, is there a theoretical limit?
The limits are pretty much defined by Microsoft DirectX, and they are pretty impressive.
Microsoft does a good job of keeping their software up to the levels the hardware can provide.
Could I build a machine with four twelve-core Opterons, for example?
I would think so.
We are scheduling testing along those lines, a dual cpu system with 12 cores (24 threads),
and we discussed the AMD cpus as well.
We can currently get three 4k-24p mpeg4s to run smoothly and output 4k-30p
on an i7 six-core Extreme Edition / quad channel memory / single screaming SSD platform.
Throughput is also a concern in that stratosphere.
SSDs, PCIe speed / throughput to motherboard,
memory and memory channels
all come into play for that gargantuan task.
Interested in seeing how far that can be taken with a lot more cpu resources
as well as PCIe x8 RAID controller handling four screaming SSDs in RAID 0.
I freely admit this specific example would never by financially practical,
Depends on the market, WATCHOUT is very versatile and serves a wide variety of markets.
4k is arriving and we are exploring WATCHOUT play out @ 3940x2160 - 30p.
Installation costs per channel currently hovering around USD $3k. (not including production)
That is a lower cost per channel than 1080p playout in version 4 (around 4 years ago).
So it may be practical in some applications.
I'm more curious about the upper bounds of the software. When does more computer equate to better performance,
Show Sage has been building WATCHOUT computers for 12 years, so far,
that has always been true in our testing.
and when does it become just...more?
Depends on the demands of the show content.
When the tasks required (content make-up) do not stress the cpu, then more is just more.
For example, most of what the tween track functions provide is carried out by the GPU,
so the graphic sub-systems speed and gpu multiple cores come in to play for those functions.
Tween functions have little load for the cpu.
So if your show is made up simply of hi-resolution RGB uncompressed stills
animated in WATCHOUT at progressive full frame rates, but no movies or modest movie loads,
then cpu is not critical to success, but GPU is.
That said, it is a very rare show that will
need the extra power of dual graphics cards (Crossfire/SLI),
and since the second card only adds to the graphics systems overall performance,
you do not pick up any more outputs with the second card.
GPU is where most laptops and minis fall short.
Keying, masking stress the GPU the most.
However, if you are only playing movies and lightly using tweens,
laptop or motherboard integrated gpus may suffice.
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As Rainer indicated, it is more likely a tweaking issue like a firewall.
We have also seen issues like this cured when fixed IP in the display dialog is changed to computer names instead.
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Some comments that may provide an equivalent function for now
3 - Mute Aux time lines layer playback on displays
If this is important, you could make the aux timelines all conditional layers and control it that way.
4 - Select witch displays to update, possibility to arrange displays in groups
Kind of the concept shows and clusters accomplishes.
Using the new computer name / cluster addressing handily arranges the groups.
But it is designed to accommodate one show file per group (cluster).
Cluster allows you to use the same display names within multiple groups,
aiding in moving shows from one group to another.
5 - Midi support, "active layer" mode. Meaning that midi command will be linked to the Tween and not to the layer.
So that the Tween will only actuate on the select layer at the moment, this makes possible to use the same
Midi input in any layer.
Having a little trouble following that,
there are three kinds of midi command supported by WATCHOUT,
note and controller input types or MIDI Show Control.
(I doubt you are talking about MSC, but to be complete ...)
Notes are often used to trigger tasks, but can have other uses.
Controller is often used to control live tweens.
Inputs used in live tween formulas are linked to the tween not the layer.
I do use the same controller input over and over again in tweens,
so I am not certain i follow what you are asking.
You may be able to accomplish something more specific with a little planning.
For example, create a midi note input or a generic input
with a way to set its value to either 0 or 1
and for example, name it ConditionA.
Then use it in conjunction with your live tween.
i.e. tween formula might look something like
myLiveInput * ConditionA
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No surprises there, the GPUs we use are extremely sensitive to EDID anomalies, as you attest.
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Is the same happening in the watchpax ?
Its on the pax description "Hardware accelerated video playback (H.264)"
Very good catch, yes, that is the one exception.
On any regular PC that is not the case.
I'll probably get in hot water for saying this,
but the WATCHPAX cpu is so wimpy,
if it did not use the hardware acceleration for movie decoding,
it could not play back HD video at all, so they did not have much choice.
Just the same, Dataton has full control over the WATCHPAX hardware,
so they could use the hardware acceleration in that case.
Also the WATCHPAX is restricted to one output, which simplifies things a bit.
Add accelerated movie decoding and multiple movies
for multiple outputs and things get a bit different.
With generic hardware, the variables are too significant to attempt the same,
it would be a compatibility / support nightmare.
How is the Watchout of the pax different from the downloadable version ?
watchpoint is the same inside the WATCHPAX, it is version updated with the standard WATCHOUT download.
Clearly they have a way of recognizing their own hardware to allow the accelerated movie decoding.
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By default, both Windows Media Player and QuickTime
will use the graphics card's hardware accelerator for assistance decoding movies.
WATCHOUT on the other hand will not use the GPU assistance.
To adjust WMP or QT to more closely approximate WATCHOUT behavuor,
you can change WMP or QT settings to disable the hardware assistance.
To disable WMP's use of hardware accelerated decoding …
Open Windows Media Player and right click on the video window
to open this menu …
Select More options …
Select the Performance tab of the options window
Under DVD and video playback
uncheck Turn on DirectX video Acceleration for wmv files
Disable a similar setting in Windows QuickTime via QT Player
(screenshot examples from Windows QuickTime Player 7.7.4) …Open Windows QuickTime Player and go to Edit – Preferences – QuickTime Preferences …
in the Quicktime Preferences window, select the Advanced tab
and under Video – DirectX, turn off / uncheck
Enable Direct3D video accelerationThese changes have no impact on WATCHOUT itself.
The purpose is to obtain results in the viewers
that are more closely related to the results you will achieve in WATCHOUT.
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MST Hubs & Watchout 5
in WATCHOUT FORUM
Posted
Show Sage has been testing the Club 3D MST hub. While we are successful in obtaining three outputs,
we have not tested enough to certify its reliability. Initial testing did indicate some stability issues that may be related to heat,
as they appeared later in the testing process and we ran out of time to track them down. Will report back after out next bench session.