How to build a 10 projectors in 2 display computers and 1 production computer

[mosu]

Hi,

 

I need to build a 10 projectors blending system for tour, it needs as few computer as it can traveling around by airplane.

And theres is a Live VJ will use Resolume in another Mac Book Pro Retina, so it need a 1080p live input with as low latency as possible.

 

QUESTIONS:

 

1. Can I use a PC laptop as Production Computer ? I need all my setup as compact as it can.

 

2. Can someone suggests me a setup ?

 

Here is what I thought about the display computer setup:

 

2 display computers with :

i7 CPU ;

32 GB DDR3 RAM ;

AMD FirePro W600 graphic card x 1;

Blackmagic Design Deck Link Series card x 1;

SSD x 1;

 

but I dont know if they work or not...

correct me if it is not.

 

 

3. it seems HDMI Output from MAC wont pass through into HDMI capture card due to HDCP,

so what Can I do to send computer video output into WATCHOUT system ?

 

 

Thank you...

 

[Jonas Dannert]

Hi,

 

I need to build a 10 projectors blending system for tour, it needs as few computer as it can traveling around by airplane.

And theres is a Live VJ will use Resolume in another Mac Book Pro Retina, so it need a 1080p live input with as low latency as possible.

 

QUESTIONS:

 

1. Can I use a PC laptop as Production Computer ? I need all my setup as compact as it can.

 

Yes. Run it with Full Video Preview Off = "Video as Thumbnails"

 

 

 

2. Can someone suggests me a setup ?

 

Here is what I thought about the display computer setup:

 

2 display computers with :

i7 CPU

 

- i7 6-core, 3930K or more,

 

 

32 GB DDR3 RAM ;

 

- 16 GB RAM is enough.

 

 

AMD FirePro W600 graphic card x 1;

 

No.

Use an ASUS HD7970 6 output card instead.

 

 

 

Blackmagic Design Deck Link Series card x 1;

 

For capture of HDSDI, yes.

For capture of DVI 1920x1080p60 from MacBookPro, use a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s instead.

 

 

 

SSD x 1;

 

SSD x 2, one for OS, 1 for Media

 

 

but I dont know if they work or not...

correct me if it is not.

 

You'll need something like this, see spec below:

http://forum.dataton.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=66

 

Please also look here for tweaking etc.

http://forum.dataton.com/topic/734-watchout-5-technical-notes/

 

 

3. it seems HDMI Output from MAC wont pass through into HDMI capture card due to HDCP,

so what Can I do to send computer video output into WATCHOUT system ?

 

Don't use HDMI, use a MiniDisplayPort -> DVI adapter and feed into a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s instead.

 

 

/jonas 

[jfk]

Hej mosu,

Where are you located?

 

...

Don't use HDMI, use a MiniDisplayPort -> DVI adapter and feed into a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s instead.

/jonas 

 

Does that eliminate the HDCP issues with a Macintosh computer as a source? Can you say 'think different' ?

DVI supports HDCP just like HDMI does,

and no capture card is going to accept an HDCP restricted signal.

 

[Suresh Madan]

My understanding is that inserting a non HDCP compliant device (such as an EDID manager) immediately at the output of the MacBook Pro will force it to switch it's output to non HDCP.

 

Suresh Madan

[jfk]

My understanding is that inserting a non HDCP compliant device (such as an EDID manager) immediately at the output of the MacBook Pro will force it to switch it's output to non HDCP.

 

Suresh Madan

 

How does that make sense? 

Pretty sure an HDCP compliant EDID manage simply passes through the HDCP handshake.

Otherwise, HDCP is not worth much if it so easily defeated for a lossless digital output

and the major studios would be after anyone offering such a device in a hurry.

 

Only way I know to work around HDCP

is to use an output method that does not support HDCP,

which means analog output instead of digital output.

That is how people work around cable TV sources,

they use the alternate HD analog component outputs of the cable box as a source.

With a computer, VGA would provide the same workaround.

[Jonas Dannert]

Does that eliminate the HDCP issues with a Macintosh computer as a source? Can you say 'think different' ?

DVI supports HDCP just like HDMI does,

and no capture card is going to accept an HDCP restricted signal.

 

Agreed, but the Mac does not send HDCP for a desktop signal, at least not mine, (through ACTIVE MiniDP->DVI adapter)

Works fine with Datapath capture here.

I think HDCP is not the issue, but trying to feed a 1080p60 signal into a capture card only supporting HDMI 1080i60 or p30?

 

/jonas

[Walter]

Why would resolume send an hdcp encrypted signal anyway? Really doesn't make sense to me! Never had hdcp encryption on an apple digital output, unless perhaps you're playing back a DVD. Which you would probably capture before playback. Or am I mistaking here?

[Suresh Madan]

How does that make sense? 

Pretty sure an HDCP compliant EDID manage simply passes through the HDCP handshake.

Otherwise, HDCP is not worth much if it so easily defeated for a lossless digital output

and the major studios would be after anyone offering such a device in a hurry.

 

Only way I know to work around HDCP

is to use an output method that does not support HDCP,

which means analog output instead of digital output.

That is how people work around cable TV sources,

they use the alternate HD analog component outputs of the cable box as a source.

With a computer, VGA would provide the same workaround.

HDCP is a hardware + content combination at work.

 

If the content is "protected" then the hardware will encrypt its digital output and display only on a HDCP compliant display device. On the other hand if the content in not "protected" the hardware will sense if the display device is non HDCP compliant and not encrypt the digital output.

 

Since 2008 when Apple implemented HDCP on its PCs it set up the digital output to default to an encrypted mode irrespective of the content's "protection" requirement. Connecting a non-HDCP compliant device as the first on immediately in the signal chain on the output of the Apple PC forces the graphics card to query the content and where the content is "un-protected" switch off the encryption.

 

Switch to desktop and you have an image. Switch to iTunes downloaded HD content and nothing !!

[mosu]

Why would resolume send an hdcp encrypted signal anyway? Really doesn't make sense to me! Never had hdcp encryption on an apple digital output, unless perhaps you're playing back a DVD. Which you would probably capture before playback. Or am I mistaking here?

 

I use resolume in Macbook Pro Retina and HDMI output to the capture card, then the screen displays white HDCP text in black background...

[mosu]

Hej mosu,

Where are you located?

 

 

Does that eliminate the HDCP issues with a Macintosh computer as a source? Can you say 'think different' ?

DVI supports HDCP just like HDMI does,

and no capture card is going to accept an HDCP restricted signal.

 

I am in Taiwan...and I'm not sure how it happened

I use resolume in MBPR 15" with HDMI output to capture card...

[Walter]

Hmm, if so, one if the few easy solutions I know of is inserting an HDFury to make you're hdcp encrypted hdmi signal into a hdcp free VGA signal, but then you would need something like a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s as Jonas stated. Works like a charm. (Also propagated on the resolume forum I just noticed). You might think you could use a VGA adapter directly on your mbp but that doesn't suppose to work as the software will recognize it as a non-hdcp compliant solution.

 

Now, the HDFury3 and 4 also seem to output component signal, which would imply you could use it on the BMD, but can't vouch for that. (Wouldn't input a computer signal into a video capture card myself). But it's a cheap solution worth giving it a try, right?

[mosu]

Thanks for these nice information!!!!!

 

and because I'm in Taiwan, I can't find any place sells Datapath Vision E1s/E2s card... and how much is the card?

Is there has other choice? 

 

Yes. Run it with Full Video Preview Off = "Video as Thumbnails"

 

 

 

 

- i7 6-core, 3930K or more,

 

 

- 16 GB RAM is enough.

 

 

No.

Use an ASUS HD7970 6 output card instead.

 

 

 

For capture of HDSDI, yes.

For capture of DVI 1920x1080p60 from MacBookPro, use a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s instead.

 

 

 

SSD x 2, one for OS, 1 for Media

 

 

 

You'll need something like this, see spec below:

http://forum.dataton.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=66

 

Please also look here for tweaking etc.

http://forum.dataton.com/topic/734-watchout-5-technical-notes/

 

 

 

Don't use HDMI, use a MiniDisplayPort -> DVI adapter and feed into a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s instead.

 

 

/jonas 

[Jonas Dannert]

output component signal, which would imply you could use it on the BMD, but can't vouch for that. (Wouldn't input a computer signal into a video capture card myself). But it's a cheap solution worth giving it a try, right?

 

You can only input 1280x720p50/59.94/60 OR 1920x1080p25/29.97/30

into a BMD 1,5G HDSDI or HDMI card (ie Intensity Pro)...

Analog or digital does not matter.

1920x1080p50/59.94/60 requires a 3G HDSDI card like Decklink Extreme or Datapath VisionSDI.

 

Or use a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s, as earlier mentioned.

 

This has been discussed here several times before...

 

/jonas

[Jonas Dannert]

Thanks for these nice information!!!!!

 

and because I'm in Taiwan, I can't find any place sells Datapath Vision E1s/E2s card...

 

I'll suggest you contact AVTChina in HongKong/Shanghai

Ken Cheung for more info

http://forum.dataton.com/user/5136-ken/

 

and how much is the card?

 

E2s approx 900€

 

http://www.datapath.co.uk/products/video-capture-cards/visionrgb-e2s

 

Is there has other choice? 

 

No, not really, if you want a reliable solution.

 

/jonas

[Walter]

You can only input 1280x720p50/59.94/60 OR 1920x1080p25/29.97/30

into a BMD 1,5G HDSDI or HDMI card (ie Intensity Pro)...

Analog or digital does not matter.

1920x1080p50/59.94/60 requires a 3G HDSDI card like Decklink Extreme or Datapath VisionSDI.

 

Or use a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s, as earlier mentioned.

 

This has been discussed here several times before...

 

/jonas

 

Of course, at the appropriate resolution with the limits of the capture card in mind... obviously.

[Jonas Dannert]

Thanks Walter,

 

I was merely pointing this out to everyone in the thread, as the 1080p60 input issue seems not be so obvious to all.

 

/jonas

[ken]

Hi mosu,

 

If you need help in acquiring Datatpath E2s, please contact me off forum.  

 

Ken 

Premium Partner China

DATATON WATCHOUT

ken@avtchina.net

+86 13061782180

[mosu]

You can only input 1280x720p50/59.94/60 OR 1920x1080p25/29.97/30

into a BMD 1,5G HDSDI or HDMI card (ie Intensity Pro)...

Analog or digital does not matter.

1920x1080p50/59.94/60 requires a 3G HDSDI card like Decklink Extreme or Datapath VisionSDI.

 

Or use a Datapath Vision E1s/E2s, as earlier mentioned.

 

This has been discussed here several times before...

 

/jonas

 

So even I use Datatpath Vision E1s/E2s to capture DVI signal from MBP, I still need to deal with HDCP issue ?

[Jonas Dannert]

If your source is HDCP-protected, NO capture card will capture the signal.

This is what's been stated earlier in the thread.

 

The issue at hand is why HDCP gets involved in the first place, but that is a bit outside of our domain.

 

/jonas

[mosu]

Last time I used their HDMI capture card - AVerMedia C985 

it shows HDCP text

 

 

here is my setup:

 

MBPR HDMI output > HDMI capture card input > Watchout5 display computer 

 

 

And this time I bring my own Intensity Pro capture card HDMI input to test again with the same setup

it works without any problem, and the latency is very low.

 

So it was the capture card caused the HDCP issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your source is HDCP-protected, NO capture card will capture the signal.

This is what's been stated earlier in the thread.

 

The issue at hand is why HDCP gets involved in the first place, but that is a bit outside of our domain.

 

/jonas

[Jonas Dannert]

That capture card you've forgot to mention...

 

I think it's critical for a case to be solved here (or at support@dataton.com),

that ALL the relevant info in a case is mentioned, as early as possible.

It will lead to much faster solutions and less guessing.

 

Nice that works now, though.

 

/jonas

[zimmerfisk]

HI Jonas

 

i am writing from London transport museum, we are currently specifying 6x2 video wall, driven by 2x 6 head display pc's using AMD FirePro W600 graphics cards, If possible what are you reasons for recommending the ASUS HD7970 6 output card over the AMD  

thanks

Chalie

[Jonas Dannert]

HI Jonas

 

i am writing from London transport museum, we are currently specifying 6x2 video wall, driven by 2x 6 head display pc's using AMD FirePro W600 graphics cards, If possible what are you reasons for recommending the ASUS HD7970 6 output card over the AMD  

thanks

Chalie

 

Because the W600 lack the sufficient DirectX/Direct3D hardware acceleration for WATCHOUT-use, as far as we know. 

 

Same thing with AMD FireMV, NVidia NVS series and Matrox M91xx-series, as mentioned earlier

 

/jonas

[robin]

Hi Sir,

 

I'm planning to buy a desktop computer for watchout system, can you assist/correct me sir, if my specs is not capable in watch out system

 

MSI X99A Sli Plus +I7 5820K

MSI VISWO Card R9 295x2

Kingston 32gb (4x8gb) DDR3 Memory

1tb seagate Sata Hard disk

Courgar 67M3 Solution Casing

Strike 800 true rated Powersupply,

 

Thank you so much and godbless,

Robin