Jump to content
Dataton Forum
kai

any suggestion to use WO to play media content 13824x3465 pixel resolution

Recommended Posts

any suggestion to use WO to play media video content 13,824x3,465 pixel resolution to led wall screen

Thank you so much

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kai said:

any suggestion to use WO to play media video content 13,824x3,465 pixel resolution to led wall screen

Thank you so much

Doubt there is any single LED wall processor that can accept that resolution ;). So you will obviously break it up for the number of processors it will require. Once that is determined, motion content should be pre-split into Display server sized chunks. Stills can be left as big as you want/ need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jfk said:

Doubt there is any single LED wall processor that can accept that resolution ;). So you will obviously break it up for the number of processors it will require. Once that is determined, motion content should be pre-split into Display server sized chunks. Stills can be left as big as you want/ need.

Hi jfk,

Sorry for my question it's not clear, I mean a playback system because it's large content, I'm sure for use 1 large file with native resolution or split it , output from WO go to video wall controller then go to 24xled screen sending ,

 

Kai

20181229_033727.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will definitely have to pre-split the content to make it playable. How much you have to split depends on the codec, the frame rate of the video material and the performance of your WO servers.

Splitting the content helps a lot to level out the load on each cpu core. For HAP the same can be achieved by using chunks, but you'll still have to reduce the number of pixels per stream.

I would maybe go for two or three servers with 4 outputs each and use the outputs in portrait mode, i.e. each 4k output would play a file with 2160x3465px. Make sure to use a sync board to framelock/genlock the outputs. DO NOT render any transparent (empty) parts, e.g. do not render slices with 2160x3840 (because this is the UHD resolution) but render it to 2160x3465px as this is representing the real content size if using vertical outputs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RBeddig said:

You will definitely have to pre-split the content to make it playable. How much you have to split depends on the codec, the frame rate of the video material and the performance of your WO servers.

Splitting the content helps a lot to level out the load on each cpu core. For HAP the same can be achieved by using chunks, but you'll still have to reduce the number of pixels per stream.

I would maybe go for two or three servers with 4 outputs each and use the outputs in portrait mode, i.e. each 4k output would play a file with 2160x3465px. Make sure to use a sync board to framelock/genlock the outputs. DO NOT render any transparent (empty) parts, e.g. do not render slices with 2160x3840 (because this is the UHD resolution) but render it to 2160x3465px as this is representing the real content size if using vertical outputs.

Hi,

any recommend for display card between nvidia quadro M6000 (6 output) and AMD W9000 (6 output)

Thank you so much

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most codecs use the cpu for rendering (in WATCHOUT systems), except for h264 when using WATCHPAX servers with enabled hardware acceleration and for HAP which also uses the gpu. For large files and when you use many outputs with high resolutions from one server the memory size of the gpu can be an issue. I doubt though that any card with 6 outputs can really give you 6 output screens with 4K and 50/60fps. The gpu might be fast enough but there are plenty of bottlenecks in the processing chain of a server.

Be aware that AMD graphic cards do not support more than three 4K outputs under Win7 due to a driver issue!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Happy New Years to all!

Keep in mind that the framerate you want to play out with is an issue here. 4k in 50/60 fps is a different animal than 25/30 fps.

Just sayin‘

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

I'm plan to use 2 server and 4 output / server and try to make slice to 2160x3465px (30fps) vertical output as RBeddig recommend,

any recommend display card 4 output to support 2160x3456 30fps vertical output ,

I have 2 choice for server,

1st custom built with Windows 10 and other choice it's start with 2xWatchpax 4

any suggestions would be appreciated

Thank you so much

Kai

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/2/2019 at 4:13 PM, kai said:

Hi All,

I'm plan to use 2 server and 4 output / server and try to make slice to 2160x3465px (30fps) vertical output as RBeddig recommend,

any recommend display card 4 output to support 2160x3456 30fps vertical output ,

I have 2 choice for server,

1st custom built with Windows 10 and other choice it's start with 2xWatchpax 4

any suggestions would be appreciated

Thank you so much

Kai

 

 

Watchpax won’t give you edid management on the outputs and is lacking a framelock possibility on the outputs. Not my first choice for a large videowall. 

If you have the choice, why not go ahead and start doing some practical tests? You can spend all the time of the world on this forum asking for experience, but you will never get the perfect answer for your particular situation and everyone here capable of directing you would perform the testing themselves, regardless of their experience, before taking such a project into the live show environment. 

You’ll discover soon enough and while you’re at it: share your experience, we’re all curious about your findings!  Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WATCHPAX 4 has framelocked outputs and can drive 4 LED controllers. Having said this, I would not suggest using it for this scenario for two reasons:

1) WP4 can play 4x 4K with 30fps encoded as HAP but for more data throughput the internal raid is too slow. It will just deliver some 1GB/s max. or less. Running those files with internal looping or fading into 4 new videos somewhere might hit the border.

2) WP4 can not use cross-server sync since it does not have a sync board inside which would deliver a signal to the next graphic card.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear All,

I don't have any experience with media server system before until my company plan to make a new project, I’m start to research for media server last year I’m try a media server demo software from 3-4 brand then I’m decide and focus to Watchout and start to join a member to this forum on June 2018 then I’m order 2 license from Dataton Partner to test and learning until now, I’m learning Watchout from this forum, google, youtube, and I’m plan to training for operator's Course and Certified User soon,

Many reason for my decide to use Watchout but this forum it’s one of my reason, I would like to thank all to support and I’m sorry for my English it’s not very well but I will try best to communication with everybody,

In a below it’s my system design from my know how and learning in this forum, I’m got original sample media content from designer for 1 min with Prores, then I'm try to slice it to 8 file with H.264 constant frame rate, bit rate 80 Mb/s.

My display for test it's Asus x299Pro ,i9 64Gb ram , 500Gb SSD for OS , Asus Hyper with 2 SSD in Raid 0, P2000 display,  I will order WX7100 and WX9100 to test in next week

My project it's install in next 6 Month and plan to open in December 2019

any comment or suggestion is appreciated.

 

Best Regards,

KAI

WO design by KAI.jpg

Content.jpg

Original format.jpg

Slice format.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Sir,

In above design Watchmax WX7100 +S400 , this model it's ok for WATCHOUT-A and B or not

, WATCHOUT-C = Watchmax WX9100,

any suggestions please let me know, 

Thank you so much

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/7/2019 at 1:16 PM, kai said:

In a below it’s my system design from my know how and learning in this forum, I’m got original sample media content from designer for 1 min with Prores, then I'm try to slice it to 8 file with H.264 constant frame rate, bit rate 80 Mb/s.

In my experience, h264 - even with constant data rate and a fixed keyframe interval - is not necessarily decoded in perfect sync across multiple outputs.

Also, you haven't said anything about the duration of your media. If your content is long, say 30 mins to an hour then, at the resolutions you're talking about, you might have to think about disk capacity if you use the Hap codec (512Gb SSDs can fill up fast). On the other hand, I've seen long-ish (17 minute duration, encoded by the client) h264 files require 2-3 minutes of preloading to get a clean start without stuttering.

I generally encode video with either the Hap codec or as MPEG2 (you can find encoding tips on the forum). I haven't tried playing image sequences in a show yet. For very large resolutions like your video wall, it might simplify content preparation (no slicing required), but you would have to test carefully to make sure the data rate didn't exceed the capacity of the player machines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, matkeane said:

In my experience, h264 - even with constant data rate and a fixed keyframe interval - is not necessarily decoded in perfect sync across multiple outputs.

Also, you haven't said anything about the duration of your media. If your content is long, say 30 mins to an hour then, at the resolutions you're talking about, you might have to think about disk capacity if you use the Hap codec (512Gb SSDs can fill up fast). On the other hand, I've seen long-ish (17 minute duration, encoded by the client) h264 files require 2-3 minutes of preloading to get a clean start without stuttering.

I generally encode video with either the Hap codec or as MPEG2 (you can find encoding tips on the forum). I haven't tried playing image sequences in a show yet. For very large resolutions like your video wall, it might simplify content preparation (no slicing required), but you would have to test carefully to make sure the data rate didn't exceed the capacity of the player machines.

Hi matkeane,

I'm try to convert to HAP , a below it's information after I'm try to convert to HAP,  I don't know I'm make something wrong for HAP setting because 1 min = 23gb

and our plan for content it's 3 part and long 15min/part

Kai

 

Hap.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

It looks that 25Gb file is the full 13824x3464px resolution though. I thought your plan was to split the content into roughly UHD-ish chunks (in any case, Watchout won't accept HAP files above 8000px).

On a recent project, I also ended up splitting content into roughly UHD resolution pieces which, at 25fps, were running at around 450Mbps on average. That was a 25 minute show but content was in 1-3 minute scenes which made rendering/copying/importing/updating easier to manage than dealing with content of the full duration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2019 at 4:16 AM, matkeane said:

Hi,

It looks that 25Gb file is the full 13824x3464px resolution though. I thought your plan was to split the content into roughly UHD-ish chunks (in any case, Watchout won't accept HAP files above 8000px).

On a recent project, I also ended up splitting content into roughly UHD resolution pieces which, at 25fps, were running at around 450Mbps on average. That was a 25 minute show but content was in 1-3 minute scenes which made rendering/copying/importing/updating easier to manage than dealing with content of the full duration.

Hi,

We hire a media animation company to make a content for this project and them told me it's first time to make resolution like this , any way I can told them to make any format if I need, them told me to finish render for 1st scene in this 3 week and them told me again it's long 10min and close to 1TB,

I will try to test every solution to make this project done,

Thank you for your advice it's help me a lot for newbie like me

 

Regards,

Kai

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2019 at 4:16 AM, matkeane said:

Hi,

It looks that 25Gb file is the full 13824x3464px resolution though. I thought your plan was to split the content into roughly UHD-ish chunks (in any case, Watchout won't accept HAP files above 8000px).

(in any case, Watchout won't accept HAP files above 8000px).

Can you explain me for this?

Thank you so much

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/10/2019 at 2:35 PM, kai said:

(in any case, Watchout won't accept HAP files above 8000px).

Can you explain me for this?

The maximum resolution at which a HAP video file can be imported into Watchout is currently 8000x8000px. I don't know whether that is a software limitation, or whether it is limited by the GPU. Either way, HAP media at higher resolutions must be split into pieces for playback.

On 1/9/2019 at 11:01 PM, kai said:

We hire a media animation company to make a content for this project and them told me it's first time to make resolution like this , any way I can told them to make any format if I need, them told me to finish render for 1st scene in this 3 week and them told me again it's long 10min and close to 1TB,

In general, the graphics company will deliver content at full resolution and quality (i.e. uncompressed, if feasible, or using lossless compression) which might, for example, be a ProRes video file or an image sequence (which makes partial content updates/corrections easier). The file size and data rate will usually make this unsuitable for playback. However, the next step is to use this as your master for slicing up and compressing the content, using a codec more suitable for playback in Watchout - HAP, MPEG2, h264, etc, depending on circumstances.

The delivery format may also depend on your physical proximity to the graphics company - lossless codecs are more suitable for delivery on a hard-drive. If files are being sent over the internet, you may want to compromise with some form of compression to speed up transfer times, or use image sequences which can be transferred image-by-image rather than as one huge file.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a customer is encountering a maximum HAP resolution, it is most likely a GPU limitation. i.e. the GPU has buffers that probably max out at 8K. 8K is not a limitation imposed by WATCHOUT, and there are customers who have successfully encoded HAP videos where the width has significantly exceeded 8K, but I can not recall the GPU they were using.

With HAP encoding and assuming the GPU buffer can handle the final size, it is best to split them up into Display server sized movies. If all of your movies will play out from multiple outputs on a single server, then I see no need to pre-split HAP movies. Although keep in mind the HAP 'chunks' encoding setting is important to success with movies larger than HD60p.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, matkeane said:

The maximum resolution at which a HAP video file can be imported into Watchout is currently 8000x8000px. I don't know whether that is a software limitation, or whether it is limited by the GPU. Either way, HAP media at higher resolutions must be split into pieces for playback.

In general, the graphics company will deliver content at full resolution and quality (i.e. uncompressed, if feasible, or using lossless compression) which might, for example, be a ProRes video file or an image sequence (which makes partial content updates/corrections easier). The file size and data rate will usually make this unsuitable for playback. However, the next step is to use this as your master for slicing up and compressing the content, using a codec more suitable for playback in Watchout - HAP, MPEG2, h264, etc, depending on circumstances.

The delivery format may also depend on your physical proximity to the graphics company - lossless codecs are more suitable for delivery on a hard-drive. If files are being sent over the internet, you may want to compromise with some form of compression to speed up transfer times, or use image sequences which can be transferred image-by-image rather than as one huge file.

Hi,

Thank you so much for explain,

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jfk said:

If a customer is encountering a maximum HAP resolution, it is most likely a GPU limitation. i.e. the GPU has buffers that probably max out at 8K. 8K is not a limitation imposed by WATCHOUT, and there are customers who have successfully encoded HAP videos where the width has significantly exceeded 8K, but I can not recall the GPU they were using.

With HAP encoding and assuming the GPU buffer can handle the final size, it is best to split them up into Display server sized movies. If all of your movies will play out from multiple outputs on a single server, then I see no need to pre-split HAP movies. Although keep in mind the HAP 'chunks' encoding setting is important to success with movies larger than HD60p.

Hi,

Thank you so much

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

I will plan to split file then I will waiting update from Dataton from above system , and my last plan  it's use 4 server for led screen but need to down a spec of server because it's over budget,

1728 x 1728 px/output and use 4 output / server , 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Kai,

The total pixel count of the LEDs is 47.7m, which is less than the total of 6x UHD channels 49.7m. If the content preparation/file spliting can fully utilize this, then you would only need one 6-channel server WX9100 for the LED wall.

The other 5 video projectors do not require frame-sync as the LED wall, you can replace your WX9100 with a Watchpax 4 and a Watchpax 20 to feed the 5 projectors.

This will help to reduce your hardware costs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is possible to play Hap files in very high resolutions in Watchout. I just encoded an 10000x10000 Hap (30 fps) and it plays ok. 12000x12000 will not work on the computer I am using, so my best guess is that I reached the capabilities of the graphics board. While there is no hard limit in Watchout for Hap resolutions, you will sooner or later hit the wall of what the GPU is able to handle.

/Erik 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...