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H264 problems


Michael Scheck
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Hi guys,


I just ran got stuck on a problem where I could use some advice:


I have some animations that I want to put into Watchout as h264 movies, because with this codec they look best and a bit sharper than with mpg. The animations are made with 50 fps. If I put the 50fps-h264 movie in the timeline it runs ok in the preview on the production-PC but on the display-PC it freezes on the first frame. When I stop the timeline within the movie, the display-PC "catches up" on the frame where I stopped. If I switch to a 25fps movie all is fine.


I tried several newly setup display machines that where built very much according to the recommendations and also one older machine, all show the same problem.


I put the testmovies on our server, maybe somebody wants to check them on other machines: www.cds.de/testWO.zip (30megs)


 


 


There are three files. First one is 1920x1080@25fps (always runs ok), second one ist 1920x1080@50fps (gets stuck sometimes), third one is 2330x1050@50fps (never works).


 


Is it just asking too much of the machines with these files or should this work? Any suggestions to get it runnng?


Thanks!


Michael


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None of my tools, GSpot/MediaInfo/WindowsMediaPlayer/QuickTime/VLC, can show any info on these files, such as bitrate etc?

 

Only WMP can play them, not QT or VLC, implying that this is not regarded as a standard-compliant h264-file/s.

 

How are they encoded and with which tool?

 

/jonas

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same result with our machines. WATCHOUT 5.3.1. Well tweaked.

 

Spec:

 

M.B. ASUS Sabertooth Z77 Z77,DDR3,LGA 1155,USB3.0,SATA3 6Gb/s ATX M/B CPU Intel Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge (3.4GHz, 8M Cache, LGA 1155) CPU BOX 盒裝 D. CARD Sapphire HD7970 OC w/HDMI+DVI+MiniDPx2 3GB GDDR5 Storage <SSD>Crucial M4 256GB CT256M4SSD1 2.5" SATA 3 6Gb/s (Solid State Drive, SSD) Chasis 4U 19" server chassis (industrial grade) OS Windows 7, Home Premium, 32-bit English Ram Corsair XMS3 CMX4GX3M1A1600C11 DDR3 1600MHz 4GB Ram POWER CORSAIR AX850W CMPSU-850AXUK 850W 80Plus Gold DVD Asus 24x DVD+/-RW writer C. CARD Decklink Intensity Pro

 

Im wondering what kind of software you use to produce this kind of files. (even QT, Procoder, etc cannot read the info of the video files.)

 

I have try another way to produce a 2330 x 1050 H264 file.

produce a animation mov 50 fps by AE, convert it by adobe media encoder to H264 (.mp4)

(why I use adobe media encoder because the size was limited at 2000 x 1xxx px in Procoder. this limitation may come from H264 Level issue).

 

Then I got the same result with your .m4v file. It freezes at the first frame.

 

To me, I prefer to use pre-spilt mpeg files for the playback.

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I have also tried to load in my system without success.

Mediainfo reports a bitrate of 20meg but that is all.

As Jonas stated AME or others will help you.Would be good to know how you encoded such a file though?

I suspect you may have some codecs installed on your machines to allow you to play the file at all.I would consider removing these as per the tweak list.

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The files were made with Adobe Encoder CS6 on a PC. The display machine is a GA-X58-UD5 board, i7 920, 6GB RAM, Radeon HD6970, Win7HP32, 10K HDD© + SSD(D).

 

You are right, the files do not play in QT. Sorry for that, it was just that I encoded about 30 different varieties of h264 and did not test all of them in QT as well.

 

I just put some other files up on the server:

www.cds.de/testWO2.zip

 

The h264-files in that folder are made with Adobe After Effects CS6, they play in Quicktime but have the same problem in Watchout: the 1400x1050/25fps and 2330x1050/25fps play ok, but the 2330x1050/50fps does not.

 

I have a workaround now, I am using pre-split movies (1400x1050/50fps) in h264 (I know this is not recomended, but I just need the sharpness that goes with the h264, mpg2 is too soft, at least the results that I get out of adobe encoder and telestream episode). But still it is good to know if I am tripping the possibilities of the hardware or if it is a configuration-dependent.

 

Thank you very much for testing and commenting!

Michael

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The files were made with Adobe Encoder CS6 on a PC. The display machine is a GA-X58-UD5 board, i7 920, 6GB RAM, Radeon HD6970, Win7HP32, 10K HDD© + SSD(D).

 

I would say that this hardware can not cope with the load, ie, yes it's to ask too much of the machines with these 50fps files.

Video decoding in WATCHOUT is purely a processor exercise, and a 4-core processor from early 2009 is not fast these days...

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7+920+%40+2.67GHz&id=834

 

That the 25fps file works is obvious, compared to 50fps, it needs a lot less resources.

I would strongly suggest to pre-split the 2330 x 1050 file into two 1400x1050 pieces.

 

 

You are right, the files do not play in QT. 

 

My point was not that, it was that it's not showing up as a standard-compliant h264-file,

meaning it might not play properly in WATCHOUT:s decoder.

 

/jonas

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Re: other codecs from the Tweaklist:

 

"DO NOT INSTALL ANY OTHER CODEC PACKS, MEDIAPLAYERS, DVD-BURNING SOFTWARE, OR SIMILAR ON A DISPLAY COMPUTER!!

 It it will interfere with stable WATCHOUT playback."
 
Just as a reminder...  :)
 
/jonas

rotfl.gif

----

all caps in many forums is interpreted as shouting. Point needed to be made, but more as :-Y

 

I think Jonas is in "capital red letter mode" today ;-)

...and he is right on the money as always :-)

 

If nothing else, such adherence to the accepted standard limits the variables  ;)

The process of converting a mass market priced general purpose PC

to a purpose built media server has enough pitfalls as it is.

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rotfl.gif

----

all caps in many forums is interpreted as shouting. Point needed to be made, but more as :-Y

 

 

I do know the about the shouting part, copied the text straight out of the Tweaking list, hence the ""

:)

 

If nothing else, such adherence to the accepted standard limits the variables  ;)

The process of converting a mass market priced general purpose PC

to a purpose built media server has enough pitfalls as it is.

 

Agreed!

 

/jonas

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"DO NOT INSTALL ANY OTHER CODEC PACKS, MEDIAPLAYERS, DVD-BURNING SOFTWARE, OR SIMILAR ON A DISPLAY COMPUTER!!

 It it will interfere with stable WATCHOUT playback."

 Exactly! The abilty to play these files on your system suggests that somewhere you have installed extra codecs and these have allowed you to play the files.On a system with only the codecs from Watchout Installer present, you should not be able to play these files at all.I notice from another thread on the Mediallooks Watermark, that you have indeed got other codecs installed. Although they may allow you to play files you wouldn't normally expect to, from experience I can tell you that these will come back to haunt you.A clean install may be the best solution....

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Early 2009? Oh my goodness, time passes by so quickly! OK, I´ll get some new processors some time in the future....

 

But the display-machine in question has a very tightly tweaked system on it and definitly is a very clean install, and there is absolutly nothing else than windows and Watchout on it. No codec pack, thats certain. The machine with the Medialooks Watermark was my office-PC, which I sometimes use to programm at the beginning of a project. Or is that also a no-go and does the production-PC need to be sterile at all times also? 

Michael

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I use my production machine for all my on site editing with After Effects, Photoshop,encoding software etc etc.Things can sneak in quite unexpectedly so my solution is to have it dual boot.One OS(A) is for everything I may possibly need on site.Then I have a clean OS-b as per Jonas' tweak list which I use for show mode.Assuming of course you use a production machine for running shows, which many don't. I can programme my shows in the OS(A) and have the Watchout show folder on a separate drive.When I come to show mode I boot in to the tweaked OS-b and can then pull up the WO show and run it in a 'clean' environment.It works for me and means i don't have to haul around another machine just for edits, and also means I don't have to sweat about what may have been compromised along the way. This may be unnecessary but it does help me through the day...and night ;)

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Hello,

 

we have just tried all 6 files on one of our systems here. I've also read out all encoding specs which you can see in the attached file. They all run fine except the two files "2330x1050 50fps" and "Test 2330x1050px_50fps_20MB". Those films position to any point in the film showing exactly this image but do not run through. They will remain on the last frame selected.

 

It is not a performance problem on our machine (just played 3x uncompressed 1080p50 before) but points to either the codec itself or the implementation in WO. We used WO 5.3.1 for testing.

 

Best regards

 

Rainer

 

post-5432-0-14487500-1362740213_thumb.png

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Thanks Rainer, for looking into the files. Interesting tool you use to read out the specs of the movie....

 

I wonder if anybody else has encoded a h264 with 50fps (or even 60fps for the americas) and a higher resolution than 1920x1080, and that successfully ran in Watchout. It would be interesting to know the encoding details.

Michael

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