Live Video Feed stutter/ error Blackmagic Design Decklink

[puppetisto]

Hi wonderful Watchout user form, 

 

I am designing a show and using 4 live video feeds being imported via a Blackmagic Design Decklink quad on a very new PC.

 

The video feeds are giving me error messages stating - Error: No Video Input: 2 even though I can receive a video signal. The video does indeed work but stutters badly and sometimes drops out. 

 

The cameras are all capturing at 1080i 60fps and are new 2014 camera models. We have the cameras connected via their HDMA output and going through a powered HDMI to SDI converter which then goes into the Blackmagic Design Decklink capture card. 

 

Can you please help me with any advice on what I might be doing wrong? Or what I might be missing?

 

Any help is appreciated greatly. 

 

Sean

[screenshaper]

Maybe your HDMI cables are too long?

[Jonas Dannert]

Tried to switch out the HDMI->SDI-converter?

 

Most likely suspect to your issues, I think.

 

Short cables when testing always helps, of course.

 

/jonas

[puppetisto]

The HDMI cables are 100' so that could be the issue however we have gotten one or two cameras to work just fine but then when we work on other cameras the ones that were working stop working. It's been an incredibly frustrating endeavor. 

 

Finally as of late last night I have all the video feeds working now (through some real trial and error) but all our stuttering badly and flickering. Do you think it has to do with the display settings for the signal? 

 

If my cameras are capturing 1080i 60fps what should both my Blackmagic Decklink software settings on my control be for each of the inputs be? Also what should the input settings be within watchout? At both points I am able to select how the signal is treated and I can't find the right combination. 

 

Is it best to set it all at 1080i 60fps or is there another setting such as 1080p 30fps. Is there any sort of combining or refiguring of the signal that happens at the point it enters the capture card? 

 

Any help or advice is appreciated. 

 

Thanks! 

[Jonas Dannert]

I would say 100ft/ 33m is way too long for a HDMI cable.

I would've used short HDMI->converter->100ft HDSDI instead.

 

Settings in Media Express has no impact in WATCHOUT.

But you need to use same setting in WATCHOUT Live Capture media.

 

Usually 1080i59.94, sometimes 1080i29.97.

 

/jonas

[puppetisto]

Thanks Jonas! just to clarify do I need to address the settings at all in the Blackmagic Design settings in the control panel of Windows? There are options to set each SDI port to a different type and I have been trying to resolve the issue there.

 

Is there only one place that I need to worry about settings and that is at the Production computer for WATCHOUT where I select what source/ type of signal I am importing for watchout? 

 

There is not much documentation in the WATCHOUT manual for live video feed integration so I have been struggling to resolve this.

 

Thanks! 

[Jonas Dannert]

Thanks Jonas! just to clarify do I need to address the settings at all in the Blackmagic Design settings in the control panel of Windows?

 

-No.

 But you need it to verifiy that the card has a proper input into it, and at which resolution and refresh rate, before you set it in your Live Media item in WATCHOUT.

 

 

 

There are options to set each SDI port to a different type and I have been trying to resolve the issue there.

 

- Not the right place.

 

 

Is there only one place that I need to worry about settings and that is at the Production computer for WATCHOUT where I select what source/ type of signal I am importing for watchout?

 

Yes, in your Live Media item for capture 1, 2, 3 & 4

P45, 109, 136 in the manual.

 

 

 

There is not much documentation in the WATCHOUT manual for live video feed integration so I have been struggling to resolve this.

 

 

- See above.

 

 

 

Thanks!

[puppetisto]

Thank you again Jonas!

 

To clarify further with the Blackmagic Design Decklink quad I would follow these steps - 

1 - In display computer assign each of the four video inputs to the Video In settings (this makes total sense and I have done that)

2 - go to the Production Computer and then add each video input as shown in the manual. For this 2nd part I have a question about this instruction "If your video input interface has multiple inputs for the same kind of signal, enter the desired input number in the field to the right if the “Signal Input” pop-up menu. " 

 

Would it be like this - 

 

Input Device 1

Signal Input 1080i59.94  :  1 

 

Input Device 2

Signal Input 1080i59.94  :  1 

 

Input Device 3

Signal Input 1080i59.94  :  1 

 

Input Device 4

Signal Input 1080i59.94  :  1 

 

Or does the number on the Signal Input need to change for some reason to a different number other than 1? 

 

We are just using one display computer and all four live video feeds are plugged directly into the one PC via the Decklink quad which seems to work great with near zero lag. 

 

Your help is greatly appreciated and thank you again for helping me to further understand how the system functions with live video. 

 

Sean

[Jonas Dannert]

Thank you again Jonas!

 

To clarify further with the Blackmagic Design Decklink quad I would follow these steps -

1 - In display computer assign each of the four video inputs to the Video In settings (this makes total sense and I have done that)

 

- Yes. Do not use the WDM choice, use Decklink Video Capture instead.

 

 

 

2 - go to the Production Computer and then add each video input as shown in the manual. For this 2nd part I have a question about this instruction "If your video input interface has multiple inputs for the same kind of signal, enter the desired input number in the field to the right if the “Signal Input” pop-up menu. "

 

Would it be like this -

 

Input Device 1

Signal Input 1080i59.94 : 1

 

Input Device 2

Signal Input 1080i59.94 : 1

 

Input Device 3

Signal Input 1080i59.94 : 1

 

Input Device 4

Signal Input 1080i59.94 : 1 

 

- Yes.

 

 

 

Or does the number on the Signal Input need to change for some reason to a different number other than 1? 

 

- No. Not with BMD cards.

 

 

We are just using one display computer and all four live video feeds are plugged directly into the one PC via the Decklink quad which seems to work great with near zero lag.

 

Your help is greatly appreciated and thank you again for helping me to further understand how the system functions with live video.

 

Sean

[puppetisto]

Hi I am still experiencing major stuttering and blank outs. Is there anything I could be missing? Do I select SDI as the signal input? 

[Jonas Dannert]

Yes, you select SDI as signal input.

 

"experiencing major stuttering and blank outs"

In BMD Media Express as well in WATCHOUT?

 

What kind of converter is used? (Brand/model etc.)

Which camera? (Brand/model etc.)

 

Do you have a SDI source, with short cable available for testing, to rule out the card as a source of failure?

 

/jonas

[puppetisto]

Hi Jonas,

 

We are using three new HD cameras (two Canon and one Sony) and the feeds for all three work perfectly and come in clear with no stutter in the BMD Media Express. 

 

The 4th camera is a CCTV camera going directly to SDI and that we can not see in BMD Media Express but can see in WATCHOUT.

 

All four cameras feeds in WATCHOUT are stuttering. I have tried many many settings and can't get them to work. I'm incredibly frustrated as you can imagine. 

 

Do you think it could still be the card it the BMD Media Express software works for 3 out of the 4 feeds? I am confident that the 4th feed could work if we test the settings more but for now it's showing up (stuttering/ flashing) in WATCHOUT.

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

Sean

[puppetisto]

Jonas the converter Excelvan® MINI 3G HDMI to SDI Converter for Home Theater - http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00ID4BVD0/ref=pd_aw_sims_1?pi=SS115&simLd=1

 

The video feed comes in fine using the black magic viewer in windows and is only stuttering when viewed through WATCHOUT. 

 

We are using 2 Canon's VIXIA HF G20 http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=7930058&pid=1218862378444 

 

And one Sony Sony HDR-CX900 - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1022657-REG/sony_hdrcx900_b_hdr_cx900_full_hd_handycam.html?gclid=CLr8zsukosACFQaCMgodnAEAXA

[puppetisto]

Hi Jonas,

 

I seem to have figured something out strangely from the trial and error.

When I removed the 4th camera from the timeline so just the three other cameras were playing the stuttering stopped. We are looking in to replacing the 4th camera so that we can try that and see if it will solve the issue. 

[jfk]

I do not believe replacing the camera will change anything.

I see you are using interlaced signal inputs. Those have to be de-interlaced on the fly 

and I am pretty sure that task is performed by the cpu.

Likely your cpu / motherboard / memory subsystem is hitting its threshold deinterlacing three streams.

You will likely need to upgrade your computing power to achieve four without stuttering.

[Jonas Dannert]

Using a home theater HDMI to HDSDI-converter for 60 USD, is not what I would've done...

Especially not with 100ft of HDMI cable in front of it. It's not made for this.

As I said earlier, it should be a short HDMI-cable and a long HDSDI-cable instead.

 

Since this converter can give you 3G-SDI (1080p59.94) if input is progressive from the camera, this will be an issue with the Decklink QUAD card.

It does not support 3G-SDI, only HDSDI (1080i59.94). You have to verify your signals here.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with WATCHOUT in this case.

 

I agree with Jim's additional statement above, too.

 

/jonas

[puppetisto]

We couldn't get that camera to work even when we unplugged it. It's a CCTV security camera and maybe is just not compatible with the other cameras / system? The computer is brand new and incredibly fast so I hope it's not a processing issue. 

[Jonas Dannert]

Incredibly fast is not a spec, please be specific.

On the CCTV camera, too.

/jonas

[Walter]

Sean,

 

Won't using interlaced signals and WO having to deinterlace these cause you too much picture delay? I always use progressive signals for this reason and where necessary switch to 720p. You just dont see the quality difference and especially for fast (camera) movements generate a better picture. Can't you switch all camera's and see if that solves your issue?

[jfk]

Sean,

 

Won't using interlaced signals and WO having to deinterlace these cause you too much picture delay?

 

Additional delay compared to progressive, yes.

'Too much' is a personal judgement.

ymmv 

[Walter]

Additional delay compared to progressive, yes.

'Too much' is a personal judgement.

ymmv

Hèhè. Personal judgement?? Was doubtful wether to respond or not but you ARE kidding me right?

[sanjaypatel]

are all 4 video's jittering?

[puppetisto]

The stuttering ended up getting sorted out by adjusting the settings as defined in this thread which solved all but one of the feeds. The last feed was resolved by replacing the HDMI - SDI converter with a higher quality unit to account for the long cable run. 

 

Phew! 

 

Thank you to all who helped out on this. This community is vibrant and so knowledgable! 

[claudia]

Even I am also undergoing with the relevant situation.I am also undergoing with the ample number of issues regarding the blackmagic. I am not getting at all any image when I am adding the  Intensity Shuttle as a shot in Wirecast 8.3, in Black Magic Media Express. If also I am  getting an image but in Wirecast I do not get any possible settings since all the fields are blank.I am facing problem for the Arlo too.I have followed out the manuals as required for  arlo home security review.

[RBeddig]

Sorry Claudia,

This is a forum for Dataton WATCHOUT software and related products. To find help for Telestream Wirecast settings we suggest to look for forums there.