Experience with WX 9100 and S400

[marklian]

Hi there,
Just trying to put together a new system and wonder if anyone has used the newer WX9100 instead of the older W9100 with S400 successfully on WO6?

Trying to get 6 outputs if possible and this card is newer.

Thanks!

[Miro]

Which OS? I haven't tested the sync card properly but in Win10 you will have 6x 4k outputs. There is a bug in AMD's win7 drivers preventing more than 3x 4k DirectX9 surfaces.

[marklian]

Hi Miro,

Thanks for the reply. We actually jumped the gun and went ahead with 3 of these WX9100 and S400. Running Win10 and WO6 (also freshly upgraded)

Will do a battery of test over the next few weeks. Let me know if you're interested in the results.

[mindopera]

I would be interested in the results since the WX series seems to be where AMD is headed.

[mjsisko]

Which OS? I haven't tested the sync card properly but in Win10 you will have 6x 4k outputs. There is a bug in AMD's win7 drivers preventing more than 3x 4k DirectX9 surfaces.

In my testing with the WX9100 on Wndows 10, WO 6.1.6 will not even open with 4 4K monitors connected. 3 is okay which is the same for the WX7100 and 5100 cards. Do you know of a trick to achieve more then 3

[Miro]

Which version of windows 10 did you test and which AMD drivers? If hardware sync is not important then 4x 4K works fine with W5100 or better (probably works fine with W4100 too but I haven't tested that one).

 

Here is a picture from my tests running 4x 4K 60 Hz using AMD W5100 in a Win10 x64 Enterprise LTSB server.

 

 

Also make sure to run the same display mode on all displays.. Some cards seems to default to using 8-bit color depth on some ports and 10-bit color depth on others. Set all to 8-bit.

 

 

[mjsisko]

Which version of windows 10 did you test and which AMD drivers? If hardware sync is not important then 4x 4K works fine with W5100 or better (probably works fine with W4100 too but I haven't tested that one).

 

Here is a picture from my tests running 4x 4K 60 Hz using AMD W5100 in a Win10 x64 Enterprise LTSB server.

 

AMD_W5100_4x4k_WIN10.jpg

 

Also make sure to run the same display mode on all displays.. Some cards seems to default to using 8-bit color depth on some ports and 10-bit color depth on others. Set all to 8-bit.

Well I am off to the shop then to retest. I am running a modified version of Win10 using NTlite to strip out all the "fun stuff". 

[imagination]

Hi guys,  we are using the same cards here and have a very specific problem with them. All 6 displays work fine in "regular W10". If we go to watchout display, watchpoint / watchout will keep rebooting endlessly. If we start watchout display with 4 outputs live, then add the 5th and later on the 6th miniDP; Watchpoint works on 6 outputs. 

 

All outputs are 1920x1080 @ 60.  Forcing emulates ha exactly the same problem. 

 

Anyone any idea where this is coming from? 

[Thomas Leong]

Which version of windows 10 did you test and which AMD drivers? If hardware sync is not important then 4x 4K works fine with W5100 or better (probably works fine with W4100 too but I haven't tested that one).

 

Here is a picture from my tests running 4x 4K 60 Hz using AMD W5100 in a Win10 x64 Enterprise LTSB server.

 

AMD_W5100_4x4k_WIN10.jpg

 

Also make sure to run the same display mode on all displays.. Some cards seems to default to using 8-bit color depth on some ports and 10-bit color depth on others. Set all to 8-bit.

 

Miro,

 

Pray tell some of the hardware specs you were using for the 4x4K decode -

cpu - Intel i7 or i9 which specific model?

cpu cooler - air or water cooled? If air, which model? I understand the i9 with a TDP of 140W can exceed that under load.

harddisks or SSD - in RAID mode? RAID 0, 1 or 5 using motherboard RAID or 3rd party RAID card? How many SSDs in the RAID?

 

Reason I am asking is that I am trying to put together a set of Production and Display unit specifically for 4x4K output.

Thanks.

 

Thomas Leong

Thanks.

[mjsisko]

Sorry for the delayed response, I was able to get 4x4K out of the wx5100, 7100 and 9100 @60. Just needed to use better cables it seems.

Went Display Port direct into our X80 and the 4K looked great. 

 

Thanks Miro

[Brecht]

I have the W9100 and have 6 x 4K@30hz. Windows 10 and WO 6.2.1

[Thomas Leong]

5 hours ago, Brecht said:

I have the W9100 and have 6 x 4K at 30hz. Windows 10 and WO 6.2.1

"6 x 4K at 30Hz" using what output adapters? I found out that DP-HDMI 1.x will max out at 30Hz. One needs DP-HDMI 2.0 (or at a guess DP-DP) to get 4K at 60Hz.

My tests were done with a single 4K monitor though, not more, and with the WX4100.

[Miro]

Hi, we are running multiple servers with AMD WX 9100 driving 6x 4K monitors/projectors at 60 Hz.

In our lab we are using the locking AMD miniDP to DP converters with 3 meter hi-quality DP cables connected to each monitor. In real life the distance between server and projectors or monitors is a bit longer and in this case optical DP extenders are used.

The main difference between displayport and HDMI is that displayport performs continuous link training to evaluate the cable in order to determine how many lanes should be used and at which clock rate. The problem with 4k60 is that all lanes must be used at maximum clock speed and this is only possible in short cable routes. Running normal cables longer than 3 meters is problematic in this case.

HDMI 2.0 and 2.1 is an option but adapters shorten the theoretical cable length. Also cables are not marked with HDMI 2.0 which makes it a bit confusing. HDMI 4k cables are version 1.4 supporting only 4k30. Look for cables labeled as HDMI 4k HDR (usually 18 Gb/s) which are HDMI 2.0. When using DP to HDMI 2.0 adapters the cables shouldn't be longer than 3 meters. 5 meter cables are rated for connecting directly between source and display and an adapter introduces too much signal loss.

I never had any good experience using boosters or amplifiers. Fiberoptics or quad link 3G SDI the way to go if you need longer cable routes.

Additionally I always force emulate EDID especially when using sync cards.

It takes a while for the driver to synchronize when entering fullscreen mode and with that many outputs Windows might kill the display driver because it doesn't respond fast enough resulting in blue screens. It's recommended to extend this time limit using the registry. 

. Docs: Microsoft TDR Registry Keys

 

• HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers TdrDelay should be increased to 15 seconds (default is 2 seconds, decimal value DWORD)
• HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers TdrDdiDelay should be increased to 60 seconds (default is 5 seconds, decimal value DWORD)

//Miro

     

[zackboyd]

Miro this is awesome info!!! Thank you for benching this!!

[ronald]

On 12/27/2017 at 2:28 AM, mjsisko said:

In my testing with the WX9100 on Wndows 10, WO 6.1.6 will not even open with 4 4K monitors connected. 3 is okay which is the same for the WX7100 and 5100 cards. Do you know of a trick to achieve more then 3

Hi sir can u help me? which version of wx9100 software you are using? my OS are Windows 10 LTSB 2016. IT doesnt work my s400 syncard

[ronald]

On 4/19/2018 at 10:33 AM, Miro said:

Hi, we are running multiple servers with AMD WX 9100 driving 6x 4K monitors/projectors at 60 Hz.

In our lab we are using the locking AMD miniDP to DP converters with 3 meter hi-quality DP cables connected to each monitor. In real life the distance between server and projectors or monitors is a bit longer and in this case optical DP extenders are used.

The main difference between displayport and HDMI is that displayport performs continuous link training to evaluate the cable in order to determine how many lanes should be used and at which clock rate. The problem with 4k60 is that all lanes must be used at maximum clock speed and this is only possible in short cable routes. Running normal cables longer than 3 meters is problematic in this case.

HDMI 2.0 and 2.1 is an option but adapters shorten the theoretical cable length. Also cables are not marked with HDMI 2.0 which makes it a bit confusing. HDMI 4k cables are version 1.4 supporting only 4k30. Look for cables labeled as HDMI 4k HDR (usually 18 Gb/s) which are HDMI 2.0. When using DP to HDMI 2.0 adapters the cables shouldn't be longer than 3 meters. 5 meter cables are rated for connecting directly between source and display and an adapter introduces too much signal loss.

I never had any good experience using boosters or amplifiers. Fiberoptics or quad link 3G SDI the way to go if you need longer cable routes.

Additionally I always force emulate EDID especially when using sync cards.

It takes a while for the driver to synchronize when entering fullscreen mode and with that many outputs Windows might kill the display driver because it doesn't respond fast enough resulting in blue screens. It's recommended to extend this time limit using the registry. 

. Docs: Microsoft TDR Registry Keys

 

• HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers TdrDelay should be increased to 15 seconds (default is 2 seconds, decimal value DWORD)
• HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers TdrDdiDelay should be increased to 60 seconds (default is 5 seconds, decimal value DWORD)

//Miro

     

hi Miro which specs of your Machine? please. . .

 

[Guest DavidA]

Hi Ronald!

Dataton does not provide hardware recommendations for WATCHOUT media servers. However, you will find plenty of threads in this forum where you find great advice on what components to chose. 

Best regards, 
David / Dataton

[Miro]

Ronald, we are using the radeon-pro-software-17.q4.1-whql-dec14 drivers.

In the WATCHOUT installation folder you will find the following exe-files:

• WATCHPOINT.EXE (~879 KB)
• WP.EXE (~9.5 MB)

The small one WATCHPOINT.EXE has a watchdog functionality. It launches WP.EXE and re-launches if it crashes or hangs. The problem in the 6.1.6 version is that the time-out for detecting if WP.EXE is unresponsive is 10 seconds. Creating many displays in Windows 10 takes time, especially if the driver needs to change display mode. Creating more than 3 displays takes more than 10 seconds which will result in that the watchdog terminates and relaunches WP.EXE infinitely. This has been addressed in later versions of WATCHOUT but in 6.1.6 it's not.

What you can do is to skip the watchdog and run WP.EXE directly. Also setup the display settings to match your show for a quicker start. If you need the WATCHDOG functionality, Windows has some built in functionality for this using the task scheduler but I haven't tested it. There should also be plenty of 3rd party solutions for this.

//Miro

[ronald]

On 7/1/2019 at 11:43 AM, DavidA said:

Hi Ronald!

Dataton does not provide hardware recommendations for WATCHOUT media servers. However, you will find plenty of threads in this forum where you find great advice on what components to chose. 

Best regards, 
David / Dataton

Thanks

[ronald]

On 7/1/2019 at 12:04 PM, Miro said:

Ronald, we are using the radeon-pro-software-17.q4.1-whql-dec14 drivers.

In the WATCHOUT installation folder you will find the following exe-files:

• WATCHPOINT.EXE (~879 KB)
• WP.EXE (~9.5 MB)

The small one WATCHPOINT.EXE has a watchdog functionality. It launches WP.EXE and re-launches if it crashes or hangs. The problem in the 6.1.6 version is that the time-out for detecting if WP.EXE is unresponsive is 10 seconds. Creating many displays in Windows 10 takes time, especially if the driver needs to change display mode. Creating more than 3 displays takes more than 10 seconds which will result in that the watchdog terminates and relaunches WP.EXE infinitely. This has been addressed in later versions of WATCHOUT but in 6.1.6 it's not.

What you can do is to skip the watchdog and run WP.EXE directly. Also setup the display settings to match your show for a quicker start. If you need the WATCHDOG functionality, Windows has some built in functionality for this using the task scheduler but I haven't tested it. There should also be plenty of 3rd party solutions for this.

//Miro

hi miro thank you for the info. i have another question? about my ati s400 synccard cannot sync perfectly. and my graphic card are wx9100. OS windows 10 LTSB 2016. have a look to my attach image maybe do u have an idea how to solve this please.

[Miro]

Hi, can you check if the desktop settings are matching the settings of your show when you are setting up the sync settings? The sync card is setup in desktop mode and if you go full screen with any other settings it will invalidate the sync. For example:

10bit 1920x1080 59.94 Hz in the desktop and running 8bit 1920x1080 60.00 Hz in WATCHOUT will not synchronize. 10 or 8 bit settings are set in the AMD control panel while resolution and refresh rate is set in Windows settings. You can check output signal details in the AMD control panel as well since that one will show the correct refresh rate. Windows is not consequent and is displaying 59 or 60 Hz in different places for 59.94 Hz signals.

Also you can test if running eyefinity works. Eyefinity should always be in sync.

 

[Drew]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but as I understand it, do you need an S400 card to have proper sync if you just have one video card? (single WX9100) 

in the process of starting to part out my next build and weighing options. thanks guys

[jfk]

On 2/14/2020 at 9:51 AM, Drew said:

Sorry to revive an old thread, but as I understand it, do you need an S400 card to have proper sync if you just have one video card? (single WX9100) 

in the process of starting to part out my next build and weighing options. thanks guys

Depends how you define "proper synch". AMD cards require an S400 to achieve ScanLock, even with a single graphics card. (nVidia Quadro cards will provide ScanLock with a single card and no synch card).

[RBeddig]

If you want to feed a large LED wall with more than one output from your graphic card and more than one LED processor, you will need the S400 card.

For soft-edge from within WATCHOUT it is often not needed.