Tearing between different display computer(LED wall)

[Add]

hi everyone

i have 3 display computer and 1 production computer

 

each display computer is dell t5810 with wx9100 and s400.

 

each display computer’s wx9100 have 5 output for led sending card and 1 output for display computer monitor(only for control display computer, not for wo).

all led sending card’s resolution is 1920*1472 50hz

and all display monitor’s resolution is 1920*1080 50hz

i’ve setting up each s400 sync and wo6.4’s sync setting.

i’m sure each display computer’s 5 output are sync even without s400.

but still got tearing not sync between display computer.(only fast move video files)

i also try hap hapq mp4 and got same problem...

what else can i do ?

[Benoit]

Hi Add,

Yes, this is due to scanning and the only way I know to avoid this is to use an external sync generator (blackmagic have a cheap one), generate a 50Hz genlock and input it both in your S400 and in your LED controllers.

Be careful, some LED controlers only support black burst and not tri level. S400 cards support both.

Good luck,

Benoit

[Morgan Wong]

Have you linked between s400, and setup the sync "source" correctly?

and how many processor are you using?

 

[Add]

2 hours ago, Morgan Wong said:

Have you linked between s400, and setup the sync "source" correctly?

and how many processor are you using?

 

yes,i already setting done...

each display pc has 5 processor

so total is 15.

[Add]

3 hours ago, Benoit said:

Hi Add,

Yes, this is due to scanning and the only way I know to avoid this is to use an external sync generator (blackmagic have a cheap one), generate a 50Hz genlock and input it both in your S400 and in your LED controllers.

Be careful, some LED controlers only support black burst and not tri level. S400 cards support both.

Good luck,

Benoit

hi

but i think our led sending card doesn’t support that...our sending card is novastar mctrl660. it’s has no genlock port.

[Benoit]

Hi Add,

And you don't see any delay between different processor from the same server?

How did you setup the s400? Can you copy the config screens?

Benoit

[Add]

59 minutes ago, Benoit said:

Hi Add,

And you don't see any delay between different processor from the same server?

How did you setup the s400? Can you copy the config screens?

Benoit

yes,all same server’s processor is synced.

sorry i can’t upload pic cause the maximum 0.98m limit...

but morgan has checked my sync setting and he says my setting was correct but still tearing

morgan tell me to install amd’s driver to 2017q4 instead of now i install version 2019q2 but i’have not test yet

i use the framelock method ,not genlock.

is it genlock important for my case?

 

[Benoit]

Hi Add,

I let Morgan check with you. Tell me if you don't manage to fix it but Morgan is probably stronger than me.

I personally prefer GenLock over frame lock for redundancy reason but it's supposed to work for both.

Best,

Benoit

[Add]

On 6/21/2019 at 11:52 PM, Benoit said:

Hi Add,

I let Morgan check with you. Tell me if you don't manage to fix it but Morgan is probably stronger than me.

I personally prefer GenLock over frame lock for redundancy reason but it's supposed to work for both.

Best,

Benoit

 

After a few days of testing , still tearing...

My LED's resolution PC1 is 9152*960 PC2 is 5504*1472 PC3 is 9152*960

when i play a moive file 3840*2160 Scaled to PC1+PC2 or PC1+PC2+PC3 or PC2+PC3 , it will tearing

 

i try the S400 framelock but not working. Changed AMD's driver version but not working.

Only genlock i haven't test.

i will test it today and reply you soon.

[jfk]

39 minutes ago, Add said:

After a few days of testing , still tearing...

My LED's resolution PC1 is 9152*960 PC2 is 5504*1472 PC3 is 9152*960

I am a little confused. PC2 is a different scan rate than the other two. How can you scan lock different scan rates - did not think that was possible? Always thought you could only scan lock matching scan rates. 

[Add]

1 minute ago, jfk said:

我有點困惑。PC2與其他兩種掃描速率不同。如何掃描鎖定不同的掃描速率 - 不認為這是可能的？始終認為您只能掃描鎖定匹配掃描速率。 

hi JFK,

those resolution is LED.

PC1 2 3 's wx9100 output resolution are the same "1920*1472 50HZ"

total 15 output. each PC has 5 output.

[Benoit]

Hi Add,

Maybe the non standard resolution is the problem. Could you also try 1920x1080@50?

Best,

Benoit

[Add]

Just now, Benoit said:

Hi Add,

Maybe the non standard resolution is the problem. Could you also try 1920x1080@50?

Best,

Benoit

sorry, i forgot to tell you

i already try 1920x1080@50 and 1920x1080@60 

and the problem was still here.

[Neil Stratton]

I agree with Benoit- I have also had trouble using custom resolutions with framelock in S400 cards. I never managed to overcome it and my solution has been to go to standard resolutions

[Add]

2 hours ago, Neil Stratton said:

I agree with Benoit- I have also had trouble using custom resolutions with framelock in S400 cards. I never managed to overcome it and my solution has been to go to standard resolutions

Movie Emotional Hardstyle 2014 Festival [4K definition]

i test 1080P@60、1080P@50 with this video and got same problem

and this is my led sending card 

NovaStar MCTRL660

[Jocelino]

Hi,

How many mctrl660 do you have in this project?

I had an issue related with 2xmctrl660 for the same Led screen, they were always out of sync with 2 E2 outputs with 1 Video image divided for 2 controllers.

Regards

[Add]

8 hours ago, Jocelino said:

Hi,

How many mctrl660 do you have in this project?

I had an issue related with 2xmctrl660 for the same Led screen, they were always out of sync with 2 E2 outputs with 1 Video image divided for 2 controllers.

Regards

15.

but i test for 2xmctrl660 with 2xpc with 1 video got the same problem.

[Leonard]

I have encountered similar case before, unable to perfect sync two display machine by using AMD framelock time server.

like what Benoit said. I tried using external house sync generator to fix it. My case is applying Rosendahl Nanosyncs HD for sending HD1920x1080, 60Hz.

see if it helps.

Leonard

[Add]

26 minutes ago, Leonard said:

I have encountered similar case before, unable to perfect sync two display machine by using AMD framelock time server.

like what Benoit said. I tried using external house sync generator to fix it. My case is applying Rosendahl Nanosyncs HD for sending HD1920x1080, 60Hz.

see if it helps.

Leonard

hi Leonard.

i already tried using bmd sync generator to sending 50hz but it cannot help me solve the problem.

[RBeddig]

On 6/26/2019 at 4:12 AM, Add said:

My LED's resolution PC1 is 9152*960 PC2 is 5504*1472 PC3 is 9152*960

when i play a moive file 3840*2160 Scaled to PC1+PC2 or PC1+PC2+PC3 or PC2+PC3 , it will tearing

Am I right assuming that there is no cut between media files at the connection between LED 1, 2 and 3, i.e. the media is not split at this spot?

What I would try is to use two outputs from one server and two outputs from the second server on ONE led first. Then you can see whether the outputs are framelocked  between two servers. The difference is that all outputs would have the same orientation and resolution in this case.

What hits my eye is that the centre led seems to have a different orientation, i.e. the screens here are rotated. Is this the case?

This could be one reason for your problems since displays (led screens too) usually have some sort of scan direction.We've seen this often when rotating LCD or plasma displays by 90° where we had the same problem of small offsets. Led screens usually have much higher scan rates but it could still show a problem in fast movements.

You could then check whether there is a difference if you use your outputs all in landscape orientation. Since the centre part is higher than 1080 or 1200, you'd need to tile your outputs with two rows of display.

Secondly I would not use non-standard resolutions either. We have seen issues with NOVA controllers with source resolutions different from 1080p.

Lastly we have been involved i a show recently where we used three outputs on three processors driving one big led wall. The outputs were synced with a S400 card and the AnalogWay Ascender in between us and the led display was also in sync. The led processors had a framelock function which was not set correctly and this led to very visible sync issues between the three processors. Once it was set correctly, the wall looked fine.

 

[Add]

56 minutes ago, RBeddig said:

Am I right assuming that there is no cut between media files at the connection between LED 1, 2 and 3, i.e. the media is not split at this spot?

What I would try is to use two outputs from one server and two outputs from the second server on ONE led first. Then you can see whether the outputs are framelocked  between two servers. The difference is that all outputs would have the same orientation and resolution in this case.

What hits my eye is that the centre led seems to have a different orientation, i.e. the screens here are rotated. Is this the case?

This could be one reason for your problems since displays (led screens too) usually have some sort of scan direction.We've seen this often when rotating LCD or plasma displays by 90° where we had the same problem of small offsets. Led screens usually have much higher scan rates but it could still show a problem in fast movements.

You could then check whether there is a difference if you use your outputs all in landscape orientation. Since the centre part is higher than 1080 or 1200, you'd need to tile your outputs with two rows of display.

Secondly I would not use non-standard resolutions either. We have seen issues with NOVA controllers with source resolutions different from 1080p.

Lastly we have been involved i a show recently where we used three outputs on three processors driving one big led wall. The outputs were synced with a S400 card and the AnalogWay Ascender in between us and the led display was also in sync. The led processors had a framelock function which was not set correctly and this led to very visible sync issues between the three processors. Once it was set correctly, the wall looked fine.

hi RBeddig

thank you for your reply,but  i tried to use 2pcs of mctrl660 and 2pcs of display computer and both of them's resolution is 1920x1080@60hz and setup to a led wall has 1920x1080 pixel

one of mctrl660 control left 960*1080 led and another mctrl660 control right 960*1080 led to test the problem.

no matter the s400 is enable or disable , the led screen is tearing.

and i also tried to amd w600 , wx9100 with s400 / without s400 , problem still here.

 

[Benoit]

Hi Add,

Sorry but if you don't have any difference with and without S400 my guess is the S400 is not correctly configured. Can you post here some screenshots of the AMD menus?

Benoit

[Add]

7 hours ago, Benoit said:

Hi Add,

Sorry but if you don't have any difference with and without S400 my guess is the S400 is not correctly configured. Can you post here some screenshots of the AMD menus?

Benoit

here is my setting(only show up two monitor because that is test)

PC1

PC2

[Benoit]

Hi Add,

Thanks for the screenshots.

My recommendation is to emulate the same EDID (NOVA HD CARD in your case) on all outputs.

When Watchout start, it init a display for each active output. And when you have an output with a different scan rate, even if it’s not used in your project, I’ve already have glitch issue because Watchout try to sync the different outputs…

Then, you should have the green mark on all outputs, meaning that every output is referenced on the same signal.

Best,

Benoit

[Add]

13 minutes ago, Benoit said:

Hi Add,

Thanks for the screenshots.

My recommendation is to emulate the same EDID (NOVA HD CARD in your case) on all outputs.

When Watchout start, it init a display for each active output. And when you have an output with a different scan rate, even if it’s not used in your project, I’ve already have glitch issue because Watchout try to sync the different outputs…

Then, you should have the green mark on all outputs, meaning that every output is referenced on the same signal.

Best,

Benoit

actually,i already test for all monitor use the same edid,even unplug the pc's monitor to try(keep 5 pcs mctrl660 with same edid alone)

and all outputs are green in the s400 sync setting panel but it shows tearing again.

it's very freaky...anything i can try ? please tell me.

by the way,when i setting up all pc's s400 sync setting,next step is open the watchpoint ,right?

and the production pc need to check the main sync server in watchout then online , right?

thanks Benoit.