Lloyd Stewart

Yikes! $3,400.00 for that AMD FirePro™ W9000! Do any Watchout users actually use those? And I thought $500.00 was a lot to pay for a card. Speaking of which, has anyone found any of the new AMD R9 series, that Jonas speak of above, with 6 outputs? Finally, we are about to build new display computers, hoping to catch some deals on Black Friday or Cyber Monday here in the USA. So how can I put this? There wouldn't be any reason NOT to build now, would there? ...........he said with an eye to the future. Wink, wink.

A guy by the name of Geogen sometimes posts here and way back on 02/08/13, he posted his system, that I really liked back then, about 9 months ago, which in "computer equipment time" equates to about 9 years ago, since so much stuff, especially graphics cards and processors, are so frequenly updated and improved. But I think he said his rigs ran 6 1080p videos simultaneously, which I thought was fantastic. Nowadays though, should you venture into 2K and 4K videos, I'm not so sure what the result would be, which of course, is why NNinja said, "I think the best card is the one that best suites both the task and the budget." Still, it might be useful to look at what Geogen and his highly esteemed company was using then, lo those many moons ago, even though some of the components may no longer be available. I know I would be quite happy to own such a rig today! (I added a few prices that I found on Newegg back then) MB: Gigabyte GA-X79-UD3 ($230.00 at Newegg) Memory: kingston hyperX blue 1600 DDR-III DIMM 16gb ($115.00 at Newegg) CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K ($570.00 at Newegg) Proc cooler: Corsair H100 ($110.00 at Newegg) Graphics: MSI ATI 7970, 3GB, GDDR5, 384bits LIGHTNING (2 DVI - 4 miniDP) Case: Define R4 USB3.0 Black Pearl PSU: SeaSonic P-860 860W Active PFC (Modular) PLATINUM Hard drives: 2x SSD 120Gb SATA 6Gb/s OCZ Vertex 3 Capture: decklink duo + DVI extender, DATAPATH VisionRGB-X2, Avermedia analog Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit Here's the location of Geogen's original post: http://forum.dataton.com/topic/832-7-videos-on-one-hd-display-freeze/ Lloyd

The nice thing about these smaller shows is that your get a lot more one-on-one time with the pros. For instance Jim Kellner and Jim Testa are at the Austin, Texas, USA PLASMA Focus show, and I got some invaluable tips from Kellner (or jfk as he's known on this forum) about selling shows. Got to have about a 30 minute conversation with him! Even learned the proper way to pronounce "Dataton". There's also a nice little projection mapping demo at the show and Testa did a little demo for me on how midi show control can work. Thanks for the Dataton/Watchout presence at these these smaller shows! Lloyd

Well what do you know. In my home town and I'll be there!

Are the images then saved on our computers? I'm kinda confused on the concept. Why wouldn't we just save the images and then insert them into our shows as usual? I know I'm missing something, or misunderstanding something.............as usual..

Thanks for posting Martin, though I'll admit that I did have to look up the word "dramaturgical". But the peice opened my mind to the variety of stereoscopy that exist. In our field, it's rather amazing how much information one covers and incorporates into what we eventually put together and put on the screen. Glad there's not a limit on my brain's hard drive.

Saw this on Facebook this morning and it made me think that perhaps Watchout could somehow do the same thing?

Couldn't there be a separate "newbies" section, like there is for other forums I've participated on. Problem solved, eh? But, mercy, I don't always remember everything I've read in the manual, nor do I always find the answer when searching, though I could swear I've read it there. And who perfectly understands everything in the manual when they read it though the first time anyway? So it has been most helpful to feel free to ask here. Not that I haven't asked "dumb" questions, especially at first. I still get embarrassed when I think about how I asked how to move things down the time line. I was scared to death I'd destroy my hours of programming. But humbly, Mike answered, which gave me great confidence and I've been doing shows ever since. Interestingly, I've seen the question asked since, so I jumped to answer since I suspected that user might have the same trepidation that I had at one point. So that sort of stuff could go to a newbies section. But even David Branson, formerly of ShowSage, who used to teach Watchout classes, once said that his propeller didn't spin fast enough to keep up with some of the stuff he saw posted on this forum, so it must be difficult to decide what should be allowed through. Still, I get Hugo and Walter's point. If I was at their level, I wouldn't want my time wasted with the simple stuff either. You got a business to run, right? (And by the way you fast-lane guys, I read every word posted here, so when you post your rather in depth stuff, I love it because it opens my mind to things I never even thought of before AND it often answers some of my questions before they ever even come up!) At the same time, I'll admit I still need a "I ain't so smart, so may I ask a stupid question" place to post.

I'd like to know too Frank. Had the same problem on a show I did several years ago and never figured out what was going on. But, yeah, after consolidating some of the text would disappear. I just went in and restored it before the show, but I remember thinking that I thought that was odd. Perhaps a file name was too long? Lloyd

Oh man, I love watching a well done Watchout show. And that one was well done indeed. Thanks for posting!

58 seconds of Watchpax from Fredrik at ISE 2013 in Amsterdam. http://www.inavateonthenet.net/video/55760/Dataton-demonstrates-Watchpax.aspx

Wow Tom. I like the way you think! Your post certainly brightened my day. Gave me real hope. And thanks for the "poetry" comment Fredrik! Lloyd

Howdy Mark, Thanks for the response. One never knows if anyone really gives one's posts serious thought or not. So your reply was most welcome! And I certainly understand what you are saying. But the vast majority of Watchout shows that I've seen are via projector. Of course, I'm just a sample of 1, so my experience alone is worthless. But I suspect that I am correct. And naturally, it wouldn’t have to be a required purchase when buying Watchout, and one could still easily use the other means of conveying a Watchout show. Diversity and flexibility would remain. And far from tying a video designer’s hands, I think powerful projectors at a reasonable cost would most likely untie his hands, putting another desperately needed tool into his hands. And who knows whether some partnership with an innovative projector maker might one day work out. And should that not work out, frankly, I'm of the opinion that if you were to put Mike F, Jonas D, Fredrik S, Jim K, and whoever else they’d want into a room with the objective of creating a reasonably priced 20,000 lumen lamp free projector, it would eventually appear. And I know Fredrik would sell so many that he’d soon be bathing in money. I just want to plant the seed, hoping that it takes root and somehow grows. In every Watchout show I’ve done, I’ve always had different people balk at the idea, usually doubting that it could be accomplished or that the outcome would be worthwhile or that it might turn out to be embarrassing somehow. But I always respond with, “Well, it’s always easier to do nothing.” Once convinced however, and once they see the show, they quickly forget their previous doubts and end up standing and applauding. That has NEVER failed to happen so far. But look at me. I’m a nobody and have absolutely no connection with Dataton other than being a consumer of their product……….well, and an unabashed fan. Frankly, it’s foolish and silly for me to even suggest anything at all. Still, one never knows what might blossom when even the tiniest of seeds is planted.

I sure wouldn’t want what follows to be viewed as someone trying to tell someone else how to run their business. Lord knows I am in no position to do that! So please consider the following as a mere suggestion or a wish. Anyway, I've been thinking about what prevents me from using Watchout more than I do, and the answer is always the same: the astronomically high cost of high lumen projectors. Why, I would have the city of Austin, Texas, USA simply ablaze with Watchout show after Watchout show, if only I could somehow acquire high lumen projectors. And then I realize that that problem quite likely keeps many others from buying Watchout. So then I ponder to myself, "I wonder if the amazingly sharp minds at Dataton could produce their own high lumen projector that would enable many more prospective buyers to purchase this incredible Watchout product?" Panasonic just came out with one of those lamp-free projectors, but it's only about 3,000 lumens. How about one of those lamp free projectors that is 20,000 lumens strong? Really, if the brain power that produced Watchout could be focused on creating a projector that would work hand-in-glove with Watchout, well, as Louis Armstrong once sang, "What A Wonderful World" this would be. Blackmagic came up with their cinema camera out of the blue, at a reasonable price, and it seems to be quite dazzling and popular. So perhaps the good people at Dataton could set their sights on a closely related product as well.....a reasonably priced high lumen projector that would work well with Watchout! Perhaps some there in Sweden would be willing to reach for the stars? In that regard, I would be freely at your service if there would be anything I could do. Lloyd

Ok. Thanks Jim. As usual, it looks like the problem is me and that I'm somehow screwing up the installation on my Samsung Galaxy S2. I did install Adobe Air first, but things get a little muddled after that. I'll work on it.

But is there an android app, or prospects for one, for android phones, like the iPhone remote app? I'm gonna be upgrading my phone soon and want to stick with android, but will switch to an iPhone, if that is the only way to get the Watchout remote app on a smartphone. Thanks!

Thanks geogen and Jonas! With the knowledge of the testing you did with the projector suppliers, and after hearing Jonas' explanation for the improvements, that, to me, turns my understanding of the projector world on it's head. It seems to me now that "inorganic LCD" is the much better way to go. With so much money riding on these decisions, that is some extremely valuable information, and I, for one, am most grateful that you shared your knowledge. By the way, I checked out the Simul website and, Whoa! That is some high quality work. Nicely done. You guys must own Israel as far as multimedia work goes. Keep up the good work! Lloyd

Hello Geogen. May I ask 3 questions? 1. Excuse my ignorance, but what does CTV stand for? 2. Would you know the brand and source for the scrim material used in the link you provided above? (Those were impressive projections!) 3. LCD projectors seem generally worse when it comes to the overlaps, especially when going to black or for any dark projections. I call it "black level build up" that results from the increased light where projections overlap. How have you dealt with that problem? Thanks!

Thanks geogen! Happy to know that an 8K lumen projector would likely work for me. I found the Christie DHD 800 and LHD 700 both for about $12k in the US, certainly better than the $50k-plus projectors that I was looking at initially. I usually expect Christie & Barco prices to be higher than everyone else, but in this case, oddly enough, Christie seems to have the lower price. I like the 43 pound weight too. Projector prices, both rental and purchase prices, are the most common deal breaker for me in getting or NOT getting a Watchout show. I keep hoping that maybe the new laser/LED technology will drive prices down, but I have my doubts. There is so much that we want to do, if only high lumen projectors were available at low lumen prices.

Till now, all of my shows have been in situations where I can dim the lights as much as I want. But now, we want to do a show with actors/dancers on stage interacting with our Watchout show. So we are trying to get a feel for just how bright our projectors need to be. I know there are a large number of factors to consider, most especially the stage lighting, but I would guess that our situation would be close to that of the Martina McBride show that Showsage did in 2002. Regarding that show, it was said: "A central 48’ x20’ panoramic wide screen was flanked by two 24’ x18’ standard ratio screens. A total of 96,000 lumens from eight Digital Projection 15SX DLP projectors provided extremely bright, crisp imagery, even with full stage lighting." - Showsage website That breaks down to eight 12,000 lumen projectors, and I'm sure I needn't comment on the outrageous cost of projectors in that lumen range, especially if you want HD. Can anyone comment or have suggestions regarding proper brightness/lumens in suchlike situations? Does anyone have any recommendations for specific projectors at reasonable prices that might make doing such a show feasible? Thanks!

Oh man geogen, that music was perfect - pretty funny too! Think I'll play that the next time I get deep into our next project and the weeds are high. Nice job.

15 full hd movies simultaneously.? Whoa! We've come a long way in a short period of time! Thank heavens for the gamers, driving the constant improvements, eh? It's a challenge to keep improving our builds, but well worth it I think.

Thanks for posting Brian. Of course, your post did keep me up till 3 AM last night trying to figure out how to use TouchDesigner and Kinect. The possibilities seem pretty amazing. But posts like yours open my mind to things that I hadn't formerly considered. Much appreciated! Too true Kivex. Wonder if there is anyone who has tried them all, or at least most of the software you mentioned, and who could recommend which way to go? That's true of so many things though, isn't it? I think we need a list (or maybe a sticky at the top of the page) that would help point the way in a variety of circumstances. Something like: If you are a Watchout user and want to do Projection Mapping, we suggest........... If you are a Watchout user and want to incorporate Kinect, we suggest............. If you are a Watchout user and want to do an awards show, we suggest............ And so on.......... I suppose the list could be endless and that there are a ton of variables, but a hint of what works well for certain circumstances would certainly be most useful to me as I try and make the better decision on what to use when setting off on a quest to do a show in an unfamiliar way. So many programs. So much to learn. So little time.

Say Mike. Would it even be possible to include in Watchout such things as: 1. Black level matching ability 2. Camera based auto-align 3. Pixel Level Matching for color correction I understand that including such things could be stepping on some toes, but I'm guessing that Watchout would become the "Product of the Century" if those were included. Sure would make my life a lot easier. I know that other companies make boxes that do the above, but if somehow Watchout could do the same thing, I'd be happy to send you the rest of my retirement savings. ; ) But I'm just curious to know if it could even be done?

Thanks Brian. I bought a DI, new powered speakers, a ton of audio cable (which I learned is call "microphone cable" by lots of people) and will be putting it all together soon. Can't wait to use it all in a show. Once I get it all figured out, I think I'm gonna write a post called "Pro Audio for Dummies", for other slow people like me. Man, when all you know is Home Audio and you're trying to convert to Pro Audio, just understanding the terms people use can be daunting. Any suggestions for an "external audio card" that has worked well for you?